Contractor V Perm.

[Ivor Bigun]

OK so what's the new smart thing to go into?

Whatever makes big bucks.

[d000hg]

d000hg, don't try to "think" that £300 per day is great - The truth is , it isn't. its really crap

You're not in the real world.
Let's say you spend 3 months benched a year. So that leaves about 39 working weeks... let's say 38 to allow for bank holidays. So that's 190 billable days.
190*300 = £57k income. Let's approximate you end up losing the same amount to tax as if this was a permie job. Nearly £60K is still a very high salary for a programmer outside the south-east, I don't know what analysts and PMs consider good. Many people would travel a lot for that kind of money... and this is all assuming 3 months off a year.

In the real world, a salary of £25K is good for a normal job... that's why all those "become a driving instructor" or "train for a career in IT" say things like "earn up to £30k"... because it's a lot for the average person. And the average person also has a wife/kids to worry about. You certainly don't need even a combined income (from you and wife) of £50K to support a family, if you realise that a large detached house isn't actually normal/essential.

I have no problem with rates for software contractors being £300+... but I also try to remember there is a massive gulf between that and normal working families.

[threaded]

Hi

Thanks all for the (some rather patronising) replies!

What are ‘real skills’ please?

I am 28, from Liverpool and have mostly worked in call centres because I dropped out of college at 19 to work in a crap low paid job to support my ex with our new baby.

For the past few years I have attended college to get the required qualifications to attend Uni.

I have a BA in Business Management and Information

10 GCSE’s
NVQ level 2 & 3 Accountancy
GNVQ Business and NVQ 3 in Business

I know they might not sound like much to you but with my background I am proud to have them.

My original post was to ask if it was worth it, that’s all!

Thanks for the x by 1000 answer, that helps.

Suggest you go on the dole now, rather than go back to a call centre job. This may sound harsh but you're not helping your career. You won't escape unless you say 'no more'. You've now got good qualifications, use them. Rewrite your CV so it isn't as obvious you've worked call-centres. Try and get in somewhere doing book-keeping, and build up some business experience. Play with the system they give you to use, learn it backwards, write some macros to help do stuff, and help out when someone has a dodgy keyboard, for example. Get in with the IT guys. They may have some little project in your area, go along to the meetings and join in. Work your way up.

[Bagpuss]

However, you make me laugh when you say "What you see now is true market value" Its always been so fool!.

I don't think insulting me adds to your argument. When I say true market value think dot com shares. Were they traded at their true value? Or an overinflated value based on a missunderstanding of their true intrinsic value? I think the latter, and eventually the market did. The same happened with the contracting market.

[shoes]

Were they traded at their true value? Or an overinflated value based on a missunderstanding of their true intrinsic value? I think the latter, and eventually the market did.

I think he is using the definition of market value as 'what was paid at the time', it's the market value by definition.

Agree the good times are gone for the time being, but contract money is still better than permie, even if ir35 caught. Otherwise why are we doing it?

It depends on your circumstances and options. In my case contracting gets me significantly more take home than permie could with the same skillset. And the work is invariably easier and less stressful.

It's not as good as it was, but it's still better than the permie alternative. If you've another better alternative, do that!

[NickFitz]

Thanks all for the (some rather patronising) replies!

What are ‘real skills’ please?

If you spend much time here, you'll soon learn that a fair few members are arrogant twonks who think everybody else is beneath them and that their mundane, but well-rewarded, database skills make them the saviour of mankind. Just ignore them.

I am 28, from Liverpool and have mostly worked in call centres because I dropped out of college at 19 to work in a crap low paid job to support my ex with our new baby.

For the past few years I have attended college to get the required qualifications to attend Uni.

I have a BA in Business Management and Information

10 GCSE’s
NVQ level 2 & 3 Accountancy
GNVQ Business and NVQ 3 in Business

I know they might not sound like much to you but with my background I am proud to have them.

My original post was to ask if it was worth it, that’s all!

Thanks for the x by 1000 answer, that helps.

You've done well. As far as your original question is concerned, chris79's answer at #6 seems to make it pretty clear that, given those two options, you would be better off with the contracting option.

BTW, I believe the x1000 calculation probably factors in more time off per year than the four weeks used in chris79's calculations. Some of them on here simply can't cope without their eight weeks snorkelling in the Alps, or whatever

[chris79]

Some of the arrogance displayed by some members in this thread has astounded me, I think the high earnings of some people has disillusioned them from how most of society earn a living.

Comparable to MPs perhaps?....

Just for the record, £300 per day in my view is a fairly adequate amount of money to earn for one person, even with 3 months on the bench!

[zara_backdog]

You all have to start somewhere - and helpdesk roles will give you a good grounding on what you would like to do IT wise. Call it what you want Contracting/temp doing call logging - 1st level support at various companies will also give you good experience in that area. When you discover what you wish to do, then do a couple of courses in that area ( ITIL may help you in the service management area) With that behind you ask to tackle some of the 2nd line service calls - bingo - you will increase your skill level.

Good luck.........

[scooby]

You're not in the real world.
Let's say you spend 3 months benched a year. So that leaves about 39 working weeks... let's say 38 to allow for bank holidays. So that's 190 billable days.
190*300 = £57k income. Let's approximate you end up losing the same amount to tax as if this was a permie job. Nearly £60K is still a very high salary for a programmer outside the south-east, I don't know what analysts and PMs consider good. Many people would travel a lot for that kind of money... and this is all assuming 3 months off a year.

As a PM I now would take a business change role for approx £50k but IS / Transition for £60k. I'm on £340ish with v little travel (1or2 night pm), less than 37hrs pw, and 10mths left to run (with a v probable option of extending further even tho that takes me to two year!).

In my experience a perm role would see me travelling more (last time it was on average 3nights pw or 70mile each commute), work much longer hrs (up to an average of 80pw for no extra).

The permie world never really did it for me, but if this client offered me £50k or there about I'd take it for the many reasons of easy life, chance to progress, training, 5wks leave + bank hols + 1.5wks shut down at xmas, plus good pension. If the market is tulip come december this year I may just talk about it!!!

[larry]

Some of the arrogance displayed by some members in this thread has astounded me, I think the high earnings of some people has disillusioned them from how most of society earn a living.

If you spend much time here, you'll soon learn that a fair few members are arrogant twonks who think everybody else is beneath them and that their mundane, but well-rewarded, database skills make them the saviour of mankind. Just ignore them.

There's a lot of this in the responses on the Daily Mail's site! A group of people who truly believe they're better than everyone else after reading an article about someone who seems to be lower down the 'food chain'. People with jobs berate the unemployed and people on more than the average salary berate those who are on regular wages.