Contractor V Perm.

[d000hg]

£300 per day is not an extremely high rate.

Of couse, you could just lie. I am sure that happens often enough.

£300 is maybe not a high rate in the world of IT contracting... programming, software design,etc. But in the real world it is a LOT of money, more than most ever dream of earning.

Contracting is not constrained to high-skill, high-pay positions.

[Gonzo]

Yes but the guy is probably half your age, with only 10% your working life experience.. doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to ask a contracting question on a contracting forum. To be fair he could have found the answers himself if he dug around, but I was bored so decided to help him out.

And the advice for him would be that contracting in support is not the best option for a long term career.

The rates are being pushed down by UK people doing those courses advertised on the telly, and also the large outsource companies claim that there is noone available in the UK to do the work and so they have to import people from their Indian or Eastern European offices.

They always need bus drivers in London and you can earn £500 a week doing it. There's less chance of being assaulted now the drivers sit in specially isolated cabins.

[will_bankfield]

Hi

Thanks all for the (some rather patronising) replies!

What are ‘real skills’ please?

I am 28, from Liverpool and have mostly worked in call centres because I dropped out of college at 19 to work in a crap low paid job to support my ex with our new baby.

For the past few years I have attended college to get the required qualifications to attend Uni.

I have a BA in Business Management and Information

10 GCSE’s
NVQ level 2 & 3 Accountancy
GNVQ Business and NVQ 3 in Business

I know they might not sound like much to you but with my background I am proud to have them.

My original post was to ask if it was worth it, that’s all!

Thanks for the x by 1000 answer, that helps.

[Ivor Bigun]

£300 is maybe not a high rate in the world of IT contracting... programming, software design,etc. But in the real world it is a LOT of money, more than most ever dream of earning. Contracting is not constrained to high-skill, high-pay positions.

15 years ago
If you were a "go getter", it was suprisingly unfashionable to be a IT contractor. Most people believed it was far better to be in permiedom (career and pensions). This meant it was an "open field" and easy times for most.

10 years ago
It was the norm to get fantastic rates. I used to pay more in tax than my neighbour earned in salary BEFORE tax. I wiped out a very large mortgage in 3.5 years(what a feeling!) It was a fantastic time to be a contractor. extermely well paid, in demand and the general ethos by the public was still "Its better to be doctor,accountant,solicitor or have a good permie job with prospects". It was still an "open field" and great times for most.

In Today's terms
If the good times had continued, today's contractor would be earning the equivalent of a £50K salary - but with £80K being saved every year (after tax)
Lets say in today's terms, £1200 per day for 220 days a year.

So what does this mean?
I wish more people would wise up to what contracting used to be and what it is now. We now have the bizarre situation were people aspire to be a contractor but the renumeration is pitiful - about 1.5 times the perm rate - if you've got a gig.

IMO, £300pd is just not worth it - All it takes is 3 months on the bench and you're struggling. Also, it gets you nowhere in the long term.
If you're married with kids and mortgage; and you have to work away from home, £300pd isn't worth the agro.

d000hg, don't try to "think" that £300 per day is great - The truth is , it isn't. its really crap

IMO, on that rate, you'd have a better life as a permie, 5 mins from home.
The big secret is out. There are just too many people doing this contracting lark to make it worthwhile.

Its just a race to bottom rate folks.

"But in the real world it is a LOT of money, more than most ever dream of earning"

yeah right

[minestrone]

d000hg, don't try to "think" that £300 per day is great - The truth is , it isn't. its really crap

I depends on where you live, in Scotland I charge between 300-400 but I would think that in London I would be 600 - 700.

300 a day in Scotland is perfectly OK. Mind you they tried to drop my rate to just below it last week and I told them I was off.

[KentPhilip]

15 years ago
If you were a "go getter", it was suprisingly unfashionable to be a IT contractor. Most people believed it was far better to be in permiedom (career and pensions). This meant it was an "open field" and easy times for most.

10 years ago
It was the norm to get fantastic rates. I used to pay more in tax than my neighbour earned in salary BEFORE tax. I wiped out a very large mortgage in 3.5 years(what a feeling!) It was a fantastic time to be a contractor. extermely well paid, in demand and the general ethos by the public was still "Its better to be doctor,accountant,solicitor or have a good permie job with prospects". It was still an "open field" and great times for most.

In Today's terms
If the good times had continued, today's contractor would be earning the equivalent of a £50K salary - but with £80K being saved every year (after tax)
Lets say in today's terms, £1200 per day for 220 days a year.

So what does this mean?
I wish more people would wise up to what contracting used to be and what it is now. We now have the bizarre situation were people aspire to be a contractor but the renumeration is pitiful - about 1.5 times the perm rate - if you've got a gig.

IMO, £300pd is just not worth it - All it takes is 3 months on the bench and you're struggling. Also, it gets you nowhere in the long term.
If you're married with kids and mortgage; and you have to work away from home, £300pd isn't worth the agro.

d000hg, don't try to "think" that £300 per day is great - The truth is , it isn't. its really crap

IMO, on that rate, you'd have a better life as a permie, 5 mins from home.
The big secret is out. There are just too many people doing this contracting lark to make it worthwhile.

Its just a race to bottom rate folks.

"But in the real world it is a LOT of money, more than most ever dream of earning"

yeah right

OK so what's the new smart thing to go into?

[Bagpuss]

15 years ago

IMO, £300pd is just not worth it - All it takes is 3 months on the bench and you're struggling. Also, it gets you nowhere in the long term.
If you're married with kids and mortgage; and you have to work away from home, £300pd isn't worth the agro.

d000hg, don't try to "think" that £300 per day is great - The truth is , it isn't. its really crap

IMO, on that rate, you'd have a better life as a permie, 5 mins from home.
The big secret is out. There are just too many people doing this contracting lark to make it worthwhile.

Its just a race to bottom rate folks.

"But in the real world it is a LOT of money, more than most ever dream of earning"

yeah right

Are you having a laugh? The average wage in this country is around £450 a week. £300 per day is £1500 a week, that's good money for anyone starting out. My contracts tend to be around the £400 a day mark (still crap in your world), I still consider this to be very good compared to permie and especiallly to avergae earnings in this country. I paid my mortgage off in a very quick time and have sizable savings. I would never have achieved this in a permie job.
You benefited from a time of over-inflation in the industry (well done). But sooner or later that party had to come to an end. It became apparent the skills did not justify the rates given the barriers to entry (it wasn't rocket science). What you see now is true market value, the only distortion being public sector sponsored contracts which over-pay based on skill level.

[expat]

The big secret is out. There are just too many people doing this contracting lark to make it worthwhile.

Its just a race to bottom rate folks.

I'm afraid I agree completely with that. It used to have a scarcity premium (we were all the Red Adair of Data Processing), now it's just a way of billing, with no guarantee that it's better than salary.

KentPhilip: the next smart thing? Ah, the trick is to know that before the event. Or to be lucky, which is what happened to most of us.

[BrowneIssue]

Will go back to college get some skills then start aiming at some real work in three years.

And in the meantime, what is the answer to the question?

Most contractors here don't get out of bed for less than £300 a day.

That's just silly.

Back in 1995 when my permie existence abruptly ended, I went from £33k per year to £13 per hour out of desperation. It paid the bills and put food on the table while I reconsidered how to run the rest of my working life. I thought I was on a good rate; I was on three times what the IT helpdesk call loggers were getting.

It wasn't much later that I was in a £74 an hour gig.

A few years after that, I spent a year in a business startup on £15k salary.

I can understand supermodels and actresses saying they don't get out of bed for less than £50k per day, but £300 is hardly the life of glamour, is it?

[Ivor Bigun]

Are you having a laugh? The average wage in this country is around £450 a week. £300 per day is £1500 a week, that's good money for anyone starting out. My contracts tend to be around the £400 a day mark (still crap in your world), I still consider this to be very good compared to permie and especiallly to avergae earnings in this country. I paid my mortgage off in a very quick time and have sizable savings. I would never have achieved this in a permie job.
You benefited from a time of over-inflation in the industry (well done). But sooner or later that party had to come to an end. It became apparent the skills did not justify the rates given the barriers to entry (it wasn't rocket science). What you see now is true market value, the only distortion being public sector sponsored contracts which over-pay based on skill level.

Yep you're right of course. £400 pd in today's market is very good but very crap compared to the hey days. Nowt to do skill level - like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm glad I didn't miss the opportunuty and I don't care that you did.

Even so, £400 today is considerably better than £300. good for you!
Everyone is different, but I judge contracting by how much spare money I have at year end. An extra £100 roughly translates as having £20K spare at year end instead of £5K. Thats a factor of 4 when you look back in hindsight every 12 months
Reckon you've exceeded the tipping point there - especially if you're billing 220 days a year.

However, you make me laugh when you say "What you see now is true market value" Its always been so fool!.

On one gig, I was getting £800, agency getting £200 and I was being charged out at £1500 per day to the customer
I was bloody cheap - it was very hard of course to conceal the annoyance of "getting only 1/2". You know, having to grin and bear it that I was only getting £800 per day.
Oh how I would like to be as annoyed as that again