Israel

[Solidec]

Bck in the day, you wanted land you ought for it, had a good old fashioned ding dong, and to the victor the spoils. Think of the Crusades, Jerusalem changed hands SO MANY times back then.

Then comes Israel in 1948 and does it EZMODE! I can see why 800,000 dispplaced Moslems were a bit peeved back then and still are today.

Wonder if anyone has the guts to charge the IDF for War Crimes after their attack on that UN school (which had no evidence of Hamas Rocket Launchers in it).

[shaunbhoy]

Then comes Israel in 1948 and does it EZMODE! I can see why 800,000 dispplaced Moslems were a bit peeved back then and still are today.

But you presumably can't see why the Jews were a "bit peeved" about being herded into showers in Europe, and might have wanted a spiritual home of their own?

[Solidec]

But you presumably can't see why the Jews were a "bit peeved" about being herded into showers in Europe, and might have wanted a spiritual home of their own?

And what precisely were they doing before Hitler came along? Holocaust is no justification for the zionist movement!

My Jewish history is a bit sketchy pre WW2, what were they up to in the middle ages, pre industrial revolution etc? Honest question.

[lilelvis2000]

Bck in the day, you wanted land you ought for it, had a good old fashioned ding dong, and to the victor the spoils. Think of the Crusades, Jerusalem changed hands SO MANY times back then.

Then comes Israel in 1948 and does it EZMODE! I can see why 800,000 dispplaced Moslems were a bit peeved back then and still are today.

Wonder if anyone has the guts to charge the IDF for War Crimes after their attack on that UN school (which had no evidence of Hamas Rocket Launchers in it).

Does Israel recognise the IWCC? I think it has its own...remember John Demanuck(sp?) ...for WWII crimes - but I don't think it recognises the UN or International Court at all.

One just needs to look at their definitions of War Crime and Enemy Combatant to see that it has its own versions of UN and Geneva conventions.

[shaunbhoy]

My Jewish history is a bit sketchy pre WW2, what were they up to in the middle ages, pre industrial revolution etc? Honest question.

Let's just say that historically they probably have about as much right to claim Palestine as being a spiritual home as anyone else. Don't get me wrong, I do not perceive the Jews as being an innocent party in this impasse in the middle east. They have much to be ashamed of too. Their excessive landgrabbing for one thing has gone largely unchecked in the past and has exacerbated a tricky situation. After the persecution they endured from the Nazis one might imagine that they might be inclined to show a bit more compassion, but they seldom seem to. There is no easy solution to this issue sadly.

[xoggoth]

Completely agree with atW again (sorry all).

To start shouting disproportionate in relation to a short term action without taking account of the long term (by the end of 2008, over 4,500 rockets and mortar shells each with an average of 7-8kg of explosives) is absurd. Are the Israelis supposed to do nothing and just hope their luck holds? It would only take one of those rockets to hit a school or shopping centre and much of this "disproportionality" would be reversed in a second.

Another major difference, as AtW said, is the way that Hamas and its Islamist supporters feel it legitimate to target anyone anywhere in the world simply for being Jewish or being slightly less than sympathetic to their cause. These people are scumbags. Have you seen the comments by Hamas' leader on this? Can you imagine the international condemnation if the Israeli prime minister said the rocket attacks justified the killing of children anywhere in the world for being Arab or Muslim?

If a struggle is justified or not we should always come back to personal responsibility, the continual British and EU aid to Gaza simply absolves Hamas of taking the full consequences for their own decisions and actions. By propping them up economically, politically and militarily the US does the same for Israel and allows them to demand a two state solution solely on their terms. It is hardly surprising that even more moderate Palestinians feel they have nothing to lose by continuing this conflict. Maybe if we all ignored this issue it would be resolved quicker.

[realityhack]

My Jewish history is a bit sketchy pre WW2, what were they up to in the middle ages, pre industrial revolution etc? Honest question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#History

[Solidec]

Lets face it, IDF are indiscrimately killing innocent non HAMAS civilians. At a ratio of about 3:1, 5:1 in this current skirmish? Two wrongs don't make a right. How many Hamas militants are believed to be in poeration in Gaza, enough to warrant a full scale invasion force? or would a squadron of commandos have been the better option?

By all means fight back specifically at Hamas, but too many innocents have died in the last 2 weeks for anyone to sympathise legitamately with israel.

When people take exception, its not to side with Hamas, its the poor women and children we are concerned for.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Drunk it is then.

No - on the contrary very sober - perhaps you cant handle what Ive written -but its all true.

[Churchill]

No - on the contrary very sober - perhaps you can't handle what I've written -but it's all true.

Handle it? I can't f***ing decode it!