Reply to: Israel

[lilelvis2000]

I’m starting to think they enjoy it. The Israelis all say they want peace but I don’t see mass refusals for military service. The Palestinians all say they want peace but the majority vote for Hamas.

They keep fighting wars because the majority of them enjoy killing the other lot and laughing about it, while a really sad minority dream of killing themselves.

The smart ones on both sides leave.

What has Fatah ever done for the Palestinians? Do they hate each other? I would reckon as Israeli's don't ever speak to a Palestinan (and visa-versa) that it's more ignorance and educational brainwashing that is a major culprit.

As for Israel mililtary refusal...have gun. have right to kill, why not?

[Mich the Tester]

I stand corrected. You're right the lies from both sides are the same from the Lebanon conflict and the one before that and the Intifada and the ...

I’m starting to think they enjoy it. The Israelis all say they want peace but I don’t see mass refusals for military service. The Palestinians all say they want peace but the majority vote for Hamas.

They keep fighting wars because the majority of them enjoy killing the other lot and laughing about it, while a really sad minority dream of killing themselves.

The smart ones on both sides leave.

[lilelvis2000]

boring and the same old tripe as it always has been

I stand corrected. You're right the lies from both sides are the same from the Lebanon conflict and the one before that and the Intifada and the ...

[AlfredJPruffock]

Aye SB

Regaridng Lord Haw Haw - the irony is that he was a Yank !!!


"Jairmany calling, Jairmany calling"

William Joyce aka Lord Haw Haw


Although a Catholic, as a teenager he informed on the IRA rebels to the British forces during the Anglo-Irish War. He was also formerly a senior member of the British Union of Fascists, and fled England when tipped off about his planned internment on 26 August 1939.

He was the main German broadcaster in English for most of the war, and became a naturalised German citizen; he is usually regarded as "Lord Haw-Haw," even though he was probably not the person to whom the term originally referred. He had a peculiar hybrid accent that was not of the conventional upper class variety.

His distinctive pronunciation of "Jairmany calling, Jairmany calling" which can be described as a "nasal drawl," may have been the result of a broken nose.

[Mich the Tester]

What will be interesting is the coverups and lies which will spew from both sides afterwards.

boring and the same old tripe as it always has been

[lilelvis2000]

What will be interesting is the coverups and lies which will spew from both sides afterwards.

[gingerjedi]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7819188.stm

The UN Security Council has passed a resolution urging an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, with the US alone abstaining.

Is that not the same as condoning Israel’s actions? I’m not going to take sides on this as I think any attempt to bring about peace should be welcomed and that includes UN troops in Gaza if need be.

I just can’t help but think that America’s inaction is the sort of thing that breeds contempt in the Muslim world.

Maybe that’s just what the US wants?

[expat]

...I personally believe that the whole mess there is the fault of the British and French governments of the time attempting to expand their empires and not really caring about the locals. I also believe a sovereign state should be allowed to defend its borders and if that involves flattening the Gaza strip, then do it. You will notice that Israel can sit down and negotiate when they're not being threatened with a gun / bomb. Look at the West bank, but most Jew haters / Hamas sympathisers (they're both the same really) seem to ignore that.

I know about the Balfour Declaration too. I agree that the fact that the situation could develope thus at all is a consequence (one of many miserable cases around the world) of misguided imperial policies. I don't agree about sovereign states and borders, because I have an antipathy to sovereign states and their borders. But yours is a normal point of view.

I take your point about Israel's willingness to negotiate from a position of strength.

I am not a Hamas sympathiser, in fact I believe that getting rid of Hamas is the single biggest thing that the Palestinians could do to improve their lot; and that not just because Israel is after Hamas, but because they are wrong. I rather think that many Palestinians voted for Hamas not because they agreed completely with Hamas's aims but because the alternative was Fatah, and Arafat and his crew/family had just become too corrupt by anyones's standards. That's a real shame; though it's not Israel's fault that the Palestinians can't come up with better candidates (though maybe at a deeper level, it is).

And I hope you do not mean to call me a Jew-hater, or imply it. I would be very upset if you did that.

[Mich the Tester]

Guy Fawkes was a traitor??
If only we had him today when he is really needed!!

[Incognito]

Oh please. Personal insults apart, I do know something about it. Israeli terrorism like the Irgun bombing of the Hotel David, Begin's hanging of British Mandate servicemen, etc was not merely to mark the occasion of a peaceful transfer of land under UN auspices with the agreement of all parties: it was terrorism to pressure even the pro-Israeli elements of the international community into creating the state of Israel. This did not include the Palestinians who were not asked.

The 6-day war was an attempt to recover for the Palestinians the land stolen by the Zionists. Yes, technically and in strict isolation it was an act of agression by the Palestinians against the Israelis. Technically and in strict isolation Britain's entry into WWII was an act of aggression by us against the Nazis, but I ain't apologisin'. There was a reason, for both "acts of aggression", and the 6-day war was not the start; the expropriation of Palestinian land by force was the start (excepting the Roman empire etc, but if we go that far back I want all you English invaders out of the British Isles).



I read Koestler a long time ago. Although a Jew, he has never been popular with the Jews (and certainly not the Israelis) since that book. They have a God-Myth and a Race-Myth too closely tied together to allow heresy. However it doesn't matter a jot to me, or to very much about the current Gaza massacres and war crimes whether or not the bulk of the Ashkenazim ultimately came from Khazar converts. Yes, "war crimes": violations of the most universal principles of humanity, and I mean of the basic Geneva 1, on the Red Cross and essential humanitarian treatment of civilians. I am almost tempted to declare that they are as bad as the - - - well, no. But bad. Bad. Evil.

Try googling "the Balfour Declaration," the state of Israel was on the cards long before 1947. The likes of Irgun were formed as a reaction to the Hebron and Safed massacres and were actually primarily engaged in attempting to expel the British, almost like the Troubles really.

To put Hotel David into context, it was the part of the local British command infrastructure in Palestine and a warning was given by Irgun before the bombing, kind of puts it out of context with Hamas suicide bombers getting on buses and blowing themselves up.

Your take on the Six day war is wrong, but that's been discussed elsewhere.

I guess Israel is a question that will always invoke heated debate, how you view it will normally define how you are as a person, I personally believe that the whole mess there is the fault of the British and French governments of the time attempting to expand their empires and not really caring about the locals. I also believe a sovereign state should be allowed to defend its borders and if that involves flattening the Gaza strip, then do it. You will notice that Israel can sit down and negotiate when they're not being threatened with a gun / bomb. Look at the West bank, but most Jew haters / Hamas sympathisers (they're both the same really) seem to ignore that.

[expat]

Good post, but wrong on the 6 day war - it was a "surprise" attack by several Islamic states, Egypt, Syria, etc. I'm not an expert but I think Israel defended themselves with ease and went on to occupy Sinai, Golan, Part of Jordan and gave most of that land back.
TBH I don't want to paint the Israelis as "whiter than white", they're not, but think on this: If roles were reversed, with Hamas having a vastly superior military force than Israel, what would be the result?

Quite so, apologies. It was an attack not by Palestinians but on behalf of them. Supposedly. My main point remains, that there attack on Israel was not the start, it was a reaction.

Yes the Israelis wiped the floor with the attackers, and I have great admiration for how they did it. I don't know if it was "with ease", it must have been quite difficult. I am told that wargamers don't often refight the 6-day war because it's almost impossible to have Israel win.

And indeed Israel has sort of given a lot of that land back. Sort of. Still regards itself as the ultimate power in thise lands. In the case of Gaza I'd call it a "homeland" by analogy with apartheid SA: a ready pool of impoverished oppressed workers and consumers with no rights.

If roles were reversed, I hate to think. Yes Hamas want to destroy Israel. Not all Palestinians do (which stuns me). Just as some Israelis are even prepared to give up part of Jerusalem for peace: also stunning, since in 5000 years nobody else has willingly given up any of it.

The real tragedy is that those saner heads never seem to rule on either side.

[ace00]

.....

Good post, but wrong on the 6 day war - it was a "surprise" attack by several Islamic states, Egypt, Syria, etc. I'm not an expert but I think Israel defended themselves with ease and went on to occupy Sinai, Golan, Part of Jordan and gave most of that land back.
TBH I don't want to paint the Israelis as "whiter than white", they're not, but think on this: If roles were reversed, with Hamas having a vastly superior military force than Israel, what would be the result?

[minestrone]

The Stern Gang plotted to blow up the house of commons in '46.

I'm pretty sure Gay Lord Mandelson has some family connection to this mob. He has spoken about it before.

[expat]

Do you know how stupid you look when you get involved in discussions you know nothing about. Read up on the history of Israel before injecting complete ar$e into the discussion. Here's a little help from Wiki, but I'd advise you to read up a little bit more.

Israel was created from a United Nations mandate, the Jews didn't prise the land off anyone. Notice the actual size of the land mass that resolution 181 was apportioning to the indigenous Arabs. This wasn't instigated because Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq decided to invade Israel. The current argument over Israel and the land redistribuiton stems from the Six day war. Again caused by Arab aggression.



Crap, try googling “Jewish exodus from Arab lands” to get an idea of the make up of the Jewish population.

Oh please. Personal insults apart, I do know something about it. Israeli terrorism like the Irgun bombing of the Hotel David, Begin's hanging of British Mandate servicemen, etc was not merely to mark the occasion of a peaceful transfer of land under UN auspices with the agreement of all parties: it was terrorism to pressure even the pro-Israeli elements of the international community into creating the state of Israel. This did not include the Palestinians who were not asked.

The 6-day war was an attempt to recover for the Palestinians the land stolen by the Zionists. Yes, technically and in strict isolation it was an act of agression by the Palestinians against the Israelis. Technically and in strict isolation Britain's entry into WWII was an act of aggression by us against the Nazis, but I ain't apologisin'. There was a reason, for both "acts of aggression", and the 6-day war was not the start; the expropriation of Palestinian land by force was the start (excepting the Roman empire etc, but if we go that far back I want all you English invaders out of the British Isles).



I read Koestler a long time ago. Although a Jew, he has never been popular with the Jews (and certainly not the Israelis) since that book. They have a God-Myth and a Race-Myth too closely tied together to allow heresy. However it doesn't matter a jot to me, or to very much about the current Gaza massacres and war crimes whether or not the bulk of the Ashkenazim ultimately came from Khazar converts. Yes, "war crimes": violations of the most universal principles of humanity, and I mean of the basic Geneva 1, on the Red Cross and essential humanitarian treatment of civilians. I am almost tempted to declare that they are as bad as the - - - well, no. But bad. Bad. Evil.

[Incognito]

The Israelis know all about this kind of terrorism, since it worked so well in the prising of control of Palestinian land from the Palestinians in the 1940s.

Do you know how stupid you look when you get involved in discussions you know nothing about. Read up on the history of Israel before injecting complete ar$e into the discussion. Here's a little help from Wiki, but I'd advise you to read up a little bit more.

Israel was created from a United Nations mandate, the Jews didn't prise the land off anyone. Notice the actual size of the land mass that resolution 181 was apportioning to the indigenous Arabs. This wasn't instigated because Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq decided to invade Israel. The current argument over Israel and the land redistribuiton stems from the Six day war. Again caused by Arab aggression.

Then you ought to read an excellent book 'The 13th Tribe' by Arthur Koestler

Crap, try googling “Jewish exodus from Arab lands” to get an idea of the make up of the Jewish population.