Israel

[AlfredJPruffock]

And what precisely were they doing before Hitler came along? Holocaust is no justification for the zionist movement!

My Jewish history is a bit sketchy pre WW2, what were they up to in the middle ages, pre industrial revolution etc? Honest question.

Then you ought to read an excellent book 'The 13th Tribe' by Arthur Koestler - and before the the Pro-Israeilli Lobby here start throwing abuse - Mr Koestler is/was a Jew himself.

Basically he suggets that the vast majority of Israellis are in fact from White Russia (Khaszars) and very few are from the Holy Land itself .

If what Koestler concludes in the 13h Tribe is true - then it does make a mockery of the claim that Palenstine belongs mainly to descendants of Khazars from White Russia.


What - you haven't read the book ?

Heres a link to the book itself http://198.62.75.1/www2/koestler/

[Cyberman]

You ought to read an excellent book 'The 13th Tribe' by Arthur Koestler - and before the the Pro-Israeilli Lobby here start throwing abuse - Mr Koestler is/was a Jew himself.

Basically he suggest that the vast majority of Isreallis are in fact from White Russia (Khaszars) and very few are from the Holy Land itself .

Heres a link to the book itself http://198.62.75.1/www2/koestler/

We all have our own traitors. Lord Haw-haw and Guy Fawkes were english.

[shaunbhoy]

We all have our own traitors. Lord Haw-haw and Guy Fawkes were english.

Guy Fawkes was a traitor??
If only we had him today when he is really needed!!



P.S. I may be wrong, but I thought Lord Haw Haw was Irish?

[realityhack]

Not seen this posted yet, had to share:

Loving This, admit Israel and Hamas

Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert said: "You've got to hand it to Hamas, they are the dog's bollocks when it comes to unrelentingly insane terrorist opponents.

"Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas are so sensible and tedious. It's all talking and protesting and chucking a few rocks once a week.

"Sure we can flatten a few streets but it's not the same. Rocket attacks mean you can go balls-out crazy apetulip. I just love Hamas. They really get us."

[Incognito]

The Israelis know all about this kind of terrorism, since it worked so well in the prising of control of Palestinian land from the Palestinians in the 1940s.

Do you know how stupid you look when you get involved in discussions you know nothing about. Read up on the history of Israel before injecting complete ar$e into the discussion. Here's a little help from Wiki, but I'd advise you to read up a little bit more.

Israel was created from a United Nations mandate, the Jews didn't prise the land off anyone. Notice the actual size of the land mass that resolution 181 was apportioning to the indigenous Arabs. This wasn't instigated because Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq decided to invade Israel. The current argument over Israel and the land redistribuiton stems from the Six day war. Again caused by Arab aggression.

Then you ought to read an excellent book 'The 13th Tribe' by Arthur Koestler

Crap, try googling “Jewish exodus from Arab lands” to get an idea of the make up of the Jewish population.

[expat]

Do you know how stupid you look when you get involved in discussions you know nothing about. Read up on the history of Israel before injecting complete ar$e into the discussion. Here's a little help from Wiki, but I'd advise you to read up a little bit more.

Israel was created from a United Nations mandate, the Jews didn't prise the land off anyone. Notice the actual size of the land mass that resolution 181 was apportioning to the indigenous Arabs. This wasn't instigated because Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq decided to invade Israel. The current argument over Israel and the land redistribuiton stems from the Six day war. Again caused by Arab aggression.



Crap, try googling “Jewish exodus from Arab lands” to get an idea of the make up of the Jewish population.

Oh please. Personal insults apart, I do know something about it. Israeli terrorism like the Irgun bombing of the Hotel David, Begin's hanging of British Mandate servicemen, etc was not merely to mark the occasion of a peaceful transfer of land under UN auspices with the agreement of all parties: it was terrorism to pressure even the pro-Israeli elements of the international community into creating the state of Israel. This did not include the Palestinians who were not asked.

The 6-day war was an attempt to recover for the Palestinians the land stolen by the Zionists. Yes, technically and in strict isolation it was an act of agression by the Palestinians against the Israelis. Technically and in strict isolation Britain's entry into WWII was an act of aggression by us against the Nazis, but I ain't apologisin'. There was a reason, for both "acts of aggression", and the 6-day war was not the start; the expropriation of Palestinian land by force was the start (excepting the Roman empire etc, but if we go that far back I want all you English invaders out of the British Isles).



I read Koestler a long time ago. Although a Jew, he has never been popular with the Jews (and certainly not the Israelis) since that book. They have a God-Myth and a Race-Myth too closely tied together to allow heresy. However it doesn't matter a jot to me, or to very much about the current Gaza massacres and war crimes whether or not the bulk of the Ashkenazim ultimately came from Khazar converts. Yes, "war crimes": violations of the most universal principles of humanity, and I mean of the basic Geneva 1, on the Red Cross and essential humanitarian treatment of civilians. I am almost tempted to declare that they are as bad as the - - - well, no. But bad. Bad. Evil.

[minestrone]

The Stern Gang plotted to blow up the house of commons in '46.

I'm pretty sure Gay Lord Mandelson has some family connection to this mob. He has spoken about it before.

[ace00]

.....

Good post, but wrong on the 6 day war - it was a "surprise" attack by several Islamic states, Egypt, Syria, etc. I'm not an expert but I think Israel defended themselves with ease and went on to occupy Sinai, Golan, Part of Jordan and gave most of that land back.
TBH I don't want to paint the Israelis as "whiter than white", they're not, but think on this: If roles were reversed, with Hamas having a vastly superior military force than Israel, what would be the result?

[expat]

Good post, but wrong on the 6 day war - it was a "surprise" attack by several Islamic states, Egypt, Syria, etc. I'm not an expert but I think Israel defended themselves with ease and went on to occupy Sinai, Golan, Part of Jordan and gave most of that land back.
TBH I don't want to paint the Israelis as "whiter than white", they're not, but think on this: If roles were reversed, with Hamas having a vastly superior military force than Israel, what would be the result?

Quite so, apologies. It was an attack not by Palestinians but on behalf of them. Supposedly. My main point remains, that there attack on Israel was not the start, it was a reaction.

Yes the Israelis wiped the floor with the attackers, and I have great admiration for how they did it. I don't know if it was "with ease", it must have been quite difficult. I am told that wargamers don't often refight the 6-day war because it's almost impossible to have Israel win.

And indeed Israel has sort of given a lot of that land back. Sort of. Still regards itself as the ultimate power in thise lands. In the case of Gaza I'd call it a "homeland" by analogy with apartheid SA: a ready pool of impoverished oppressed workers and consumers with no rights.

If roles were reversed, I hate to think. Yes Hamas want to destroy Israel. Not all Palestinians do (which stuns me). Just as some Israelis are even prepared to give up part of Jerusalem for peace: also stunning, since in 5000 years nobody else has willingly given up any of it.

The real tragedy is that those saner heads never seem to rule on either side.

[Incognito]

Oh please. Personal insults apart, I do know something about it. Israeli terrorism like the Irgun bombing of the Hotel David, Begin's hanging of British Mandate servicemen, etc was not merely to mark the occasion of a peaceful transfer of land under UN auspices with the agreement of all parties: it was terrorism to pressure even the pro-Israeli elements of the international community into creating the state of Israel. This did not include the Palestinians who were not asked.

The 6-day war was an attempt to recover for the Palestinians the land stolen by the Zionists. Yes, technically and in strict isolation it was an act of agression by the Palestinians against the Israelis. Technically and in strict isolation Britain's entry into WWII was an act of aggression by us against the Nazis, but I ain't apologisin'. There was a reason, for both "acts of aggression", and the 6-day war was not the start; the expropriation of Palestinian land by force was the start (excepting the Roman empire etc, but if we go that far back I want all you English invaders out of the British Isles).



I read Koestler a long time ago. Although a Jew, he has never been popular with the Jews (and certainly not the Israelis) since that book. They have a God-Myth and a Race-Myth too closely tied together to allow heresy. However it doesn't matter a jot to me, or to very much about the current Gaza massacres and war crimes whether or not the bulk of the Ashkenazim ultimately came from Khazar converts. Yes, "war crimes": violations of the most universal principles of humanity, and I mean of the basic Geneva 1, on the Red Cross and essential humanitarian treatment of civilians. I am almost tempted to declare that they are as bad as the - - - well, no. But bad. Bad. Evil.

Try googling "the Balfour Declaration," the state of Israel was on the cards long before 1947. The likes of Irgun were formed as a reaction to the Hebron and Safed massacres and were actually primarily engaged in attempting to expel the British, almost like the Troubles really.

To put Hotel David into context, it was the part of the local British command infrastructure in Palestine and a warning was given by Irgun before the bombing, kind of puts it out of context with Hamas suicide bombers getting on buses and blowing themselves up.

Your take on the Six day war is wrong, but that's been discussed elsewhere.

I guess Israel is a question that will always invoke heated debate, how you view it will normally define how you are as a person, I personally believe that the whole mess there is the fault of the British and French governments of the time attempting to expand their empires and not really caring about the locals. I also believe a sovereign state should be allowed to defend its borders and if that involves flattening the Gaza strip, then do it. You will notice that Israel can sit down and negotiate when they're not being threatened with a gun / bomb. Look at the West bank, but most Jew haters / Hamas sympathisers (they're both the same really) seem to ignore that.