PA Consulting

[DimPrawn]

ID cards will not stop any of the things you talk about for the simple reason that they will be easy to obtain using false credentials. No-one needs to fake an ID card.

As I said before in this thread :

In order to get an ID card you need to prove who you are. Since all current forms of identity are fakeable without excessive effort or cost you simply fake the ID you need to get the ID card and bingo, you have a genuine, uncontestable, government approved ID that no-one can challenge.

Government so far have been remarkable reticent to actually answer questions about how one might go about getting an ID card and what documentation is required to do so. I suspect this is the reason.

All the ID card will do (due to its biometric info embedded inside) is prove that you are the person on the card. Who the **** that is anyones guess, as when you obtained the ID card, you may have used forged/stolen "proof" of identity.

And I'm sure if anyone is found without an ID card they will simply be forced to get one, using stolen/forged documents if they are not legit.

An expensive way of proving nothing.

[DaveB]

All the ID card will do (due to its biometric info embedded inside) is prove that you are the person on the card. Who the **** that is anyones guess, as when you obtained the ID card, you may have used forged/stolen "proof" of identity.

And I'm sure if anyone is found without an ID card they will simply be forced to get one, using stolen/forged documents if they are not legit.

An expensive way of proving nothing.

Which is exactly what I just said.

[DimPrawn]

Which is exactly what I just said.

Yep.

[TykeMerc]

ID cards will not stop any of the things you talk about for the simple reason that they will be easy to obtain using false credentials. No-one needs to fake an ID card.

As I said before in this thread :

In order to get an ID card you need to prove who you are. Since all current forms of identity are fakeable without excessive effort or cost you simply fake the ID you need to get the ID card and bingo, you have a genuine, uncontestable, government approved ID that no-one can challenge.

Government so far have been remarkable reticent to actually answer questions about how one might go about getting an ID card and what documentation is required to do so. I suspect this is the reason.

I must admit I have no faith in the ID card scheme either, if it represents a valuable asset then the forgers will come up with a way to reproduce them or at the least change the credentials on stolen ones, if it's not a valuable asset then why bother.

As DaveB said all of the methods to verify ID without an expensive investigation can be forged already so what's to stop people registering for perfectly valid ID cards with wonky credentials?

Expensive and fruitless exercise in my opinion.

[Incognito]

ID cards will not stop any of the things you talk about for the simple reason that they will be easy to obtain using false credentials.

Biometric data. Once on the database, you can't say you're someone else. Gone are the cases of people claiming benefits under 15 aliases and terrorists having 3 or 4 different passports.

[Bob Dalek]

Biometric data. Once on the database, you can't say you're someone else. Gone are the cases of people claiming benefits under 15 aliases and terrorists having 3 or 4 different passports.

You are living in a dream world.

[Incognito]

How much will be saved? How much will it cost to install the equipment needed to verify the id of every person before treatment? You don't have a clue, do you?

You think it's more expensive to put in a few card readers and a data link at hospitals and GP surgeries than supporting however many hundreds of thousands of 'holiday' tourists we get every year? Unfortunately we can't put a figure on it because we have no way of identifying if someone is entitled to that treatment or not, if only there was a way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4415491.stm

1 illegible health tourist = £30,000

I have read it. Credit reference agencies do something useful and don't demand my fingerprints

Why are you so terrified of handing over your fingerprints? Have you got something to hide?

[Incognito]

You are living in a dream world.

No I just happen to know a little bit about databases and querying them. If you aren't on the database then no matter how good your little forged card is, it'll still get flagged up.

[DimPrawn]

No I just happen to know a little bit about databases and querying them. If you aren't on the database then no matter how good your little forged card is, it'll still get flagged up.

If the system can detect that my biometric data appears more then once, then you have something. But since there will be tolerances in taking Iris, fingerprint and other metrics, chances are the system will be happy for me to have 5 ID cards, all with different names and addresses but broadly similar biometric values.

[Bob Dalek]

No I just happen to know a little bit about databases and querying them. If you aren't on the database then no matter how good your little forged card is, it'll still get flagged up.

I am a DBA. If I were a naughty type, I could sell the DB to anyone/tinker with it for anyone, unless it was encrypted - and even if encrypted I bet I'd be one of the few (dozens, in reality) who had the encryption key, and there'd be loads of copies on USB keys, Post-Its, etc. In no time, the encyprtion key's worth nowt.

Safe data? No such thing because humans are involved.