Ageism and Old cruisers

[Francko]

.... but prejudice is good, prejudice is natural, prejudice is necessary. Prejudice protects us.
[..]
Prejudice makes us cross the road rather than walk past a group of hooded teenagers walking on the dark side of the road.
[...]

Spot on! You are Gordon Gecko*! And I claim my fiver!



*

The point is, ladies and gentleman, is that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

[DodgyAgent]

You are right

Spot on! You are Gordon Gecko*! And I claim my fiver!



*

The point is, ladies and gentleman, is that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

You have it Francko, you are right, I cannot argue with you. But let us get this into perspective.. it is as tough for high fliers (in fact more so) as it is for the chuggers. The difference being that the chuggers tend to enjoy life more, have better relktionships with their families, are nicer and have time to spend on boards ike this.

Who wants to be a young hot shot primed to takeover the running of Sainsburys? I could not think of anything worse.

[Francko]

.... but you know what? You are almost convincing me, DA. Your ideas are simply too old and obsolete, as they were in auge in the 80s and history proved us they didn't work at all but still you fail to get it and adapt to the modern world; this reveals that you are too old to be an agent. Have you ever thought of retiring and leave your place to the more deserving youngsters?

[DodgyAgent]

.... but you know what? You are almost convincing me, DA. Your ideas are simply too old and obsolete, as they were in auge in the 80s and history proved us they didn't work at all but still you fail to get it and adapt to the modern world; this reveals that you are too old to be an agent. Have you ever thought of retiring and leave your place to the more deserving youngsters?

So explain all that to me Francko... please.. I am young (at heart) and wish to learn.

[expat]

pot, kettle

I agree, I don't want to deal with recruitment consultants who are over 30. They are generally slow and useless.

If I may be permitted a spiteful personal attack (it's what I'm here for), I know quite a lot of IT people, both permanent and contract, with successful careers of over 30 years and still going (myself included). I don't know any agents who have done this.

[Francko]

So explain all that to me Francko... please.. I am young (at heart) and wish to learn.

I generally agree that a too strong legislation will certainly prove more of a burden than a help to the unprivileged category. Apart from that I don't believe in the assumptions you made about the age. I have met dozen of ITers who were slightly over 25 and already they were stuck with their knowledge at a point that they didn't show any interest in change of the technology they were expert. This for two wrong assumption you made the here:

1) The myth of career progression. Only the people who climb the management ladder had a career progression while in IT there are millions of way of growing professionally without entering the management wagon. Only to become a solid technologist 20-30 years will not give you enough time to learn a reasonable amount of knowledge. Plus there are so many lateral skills and profiles where knowledge can be expanded.

2) The forced comparison to sports. Clearly that isn't fair as in sports you have the inevitable physical decline which stops you from being in your prime. That is a fact and it's proved. For the brain yet it's not proved when you are in the prime of your intellect. In my opinion the brain never gets old and recent theories seem to go into this direction. It's only the way your brain controls your body that deteriorates because the body can't respond that quickly and effectively. But that isn't really an issue with an office job where minimum physical effort is required.

[DodgyAgent]

why not

If I may be permitted a spiteful personal attack (it's what I'm here for), I know quite a lot of IT people, both permanent and contract, with successful careers of over 30 years and still going (myself included). I don't know any agents who have done this.

Expat, your friends have clearly managed their careers and their lives extraordinarily well, They have set their targets (and funnily enough not everyone wants to be a multi billionaire) and they have achieved them whilst (maybe?) enjoying a good balance between work and pleasure. But this makes them (by their own admission) totally unsuitable to run say a Tesco.
As far as agents are concerned, I relly do not give a tulip what they do or what they become. I am not in the business of elevating their integrity.

How many of your friends now really want to run Sainsburys?

[vetran]

Chess & Mahjongg

Why sport, when was the last time you saw a sysadmin do the 1000 metres? How old was Eienstein when he stopped pushing the boundaries.

Maybe chess, crosswords and Mahjong might be better yardsticks.

It strikes me much of this is down to perception, old buffer = no good or too challenging to manage.

[Jabberwocky]

>How many of your friends now really want to run Sainsburys?

This is the question of a limited mind - you need to see beyond the superficial
vacuum of your own profession and ask that question to the billion in Africa or the billion in China who live in poverty and continual hardship. They and countless others would love to run Sainsburys, many hundreds of thousands have the talent and the drive to do this. What they lack is the opportunity - and that's because you, and many other people of your mindset, deny them that opportunity.

[BobTheCrate]

These people you know with talent who are over 50 have only themselves to blame if they have reached the end of their careers.?

Dear oh dear, what sort of analysis is going on here.

and ...

..."he was so ready to form opinions on the basis of a job spec saying that "in all the years I have been a project manager "that" strategey has never worked" Or "I do things this way or nothing". Fine, but the question I ask is Why are you out of work? "

The answer is as easily nothing to do with what you assume it is Dodgy. "In all my years I have never seen that strategy work", whilst could be the rantings of a die hard stubborn old codger who thinks he knows it all (bit like yourself for example). Or it could be the wise observations of an experienced hand who knows what the pitfalls are and how to avoid them.

Why isn't he/she employed then ? Maybe for the same reason more projects fail nowadays and/or blow budgets out of the water than at any time before ?

"But most employers want young people because they want them (not to exploit them) to develop with the company."

I like the 'not to exploit them' qualifying safeguard. Unlike you Dodgy.

Anyway, shame that most youngsters will have left 'the employer' before their 3rd birthday with them; let alone 'grow with the company'.

"If you are 50 and cannot find a job, having enjoyed 7 weeks holiday a year, and you have been replaced by a youngster then my message is "stop whingeing and apply for a job at B&Q."

Or

If you are an employer or recruiter and and spend all your time (your employer's time) whingeing to the trade press, industry and government about 'how you cannot find the skills and and depth experience'... Just keep whingeing because all the like minded parasites (and there's a lot of them) will always defend your roll in the failed and/or budget busting project.

Your extremely committed and blind faith in the market Dodgy will be the end of you. You know that don't you.

BTW: I do actually agree, legislation is not going to help anyone apart from those parasites in Government 'managing it'.