Ageism and Old cruisers

[WageSlave]

Have you ever thought why it is that only 25% of IT projects are on time and budget to a reasonable standard? From my 15 years experience it is because many of the so-called project managers are too young. They have bags of drive and enthusiasm but no feel or understanding of large IT projects.

My ears are burning

Actually, the real reason most projects fail is because their dashing young project manager spends all day posting crap on the Internet.

[threaded]

WageSlave: Nah, projects were failing before the internet so you can't blame that.

Inexperienced project managers, oh yes.

[SupremeSpod]

WageSlave: Nah, projects were failing before the internet so you can't blame that.

Inexperienced project managers, oh yes.

Fat wideboy chancers from Yarkshire, oh, yes!

Threaded, Btw old chap, did you ever get round to paying that mess bill?

[BobTheCrate]

And for every oldie blaming the problems on youth there is a youngster blaming some old codger of a project manager who is more interested in getting home to his pipe and slippers than delivering a project

I'd come to expect a little more perceptive response from you than that DA.

There is no allegation of old codgers blaming youth or youth blaming old codgers. You have invented this.

You ignore a very relevant aspect of the industry that frequently reports the same old 2 problems with boring repetetiveness

a) More and more projects are failing than succeeding.

b) We cannot find the right skills and experience.

Then in a seperate debate these same individuals dismiss the over 40s as 'past it' and 'unable to grow with our company'.

This is code for, "I was scared to take this person on because their skills and experience threaten me".

There's the real 'self protecting' prejudice Dodgy.

But publically they can't admit to that. Similarly they can't publically admit to being prejudiced against the over 40s.

So instead they serve up this self deluding clap-trap that sounds clever and hence believable and gives the appearance of a much more respectable defence.

I know this to be true, because I've felt it myself when presented with someone with more skills and experience than myself. And I've heard it from colleagues when they've alo been presented with the situation.

The difference is that I'm not afraid to confront the real issue. I don't hide behind self delusional clap-trap. I find it infinitely more valuable and useful to be honest with myself first of all.

[Lucifer Box]

When I was recruiting contractors, if all other things were equal I always went for the older one (including one fella who was knocking 60. Steady head, safe pair of hands, not worried about looking flash, piles of experience - was a winner every time.

[DodgyAgent]

Old Crate

I'd come to expect a little more perceptive response from you than that DA.

There is no allegation of old codgers blaming youth or youth blaming old codgers. You have invented this.

You ignore a very relevant aspect of the industry that frequently reports the same old 2 problems with boring repetetiveness

a) More and more projects are failing than succeeding.

b) We cannot find the right skills and experience.

Then in a seperate debate these same individuals dismiss the over 40s as 'past it' and 'unable to grow with our company'.

This is code for, "I was scared to take this person on because their skills and experience threaten me".

There's the real 'self protecting' prejudice Dodgy.

But publically they can't admit to that. Similarly they can't publically admit to being prejudiced against the over 40s.

So instead they serve up this self deluding clap-trap that sounds clever and hence believable and gives the appearance of a much more respectable defence.

I know this to be true, because I've felt it myself when presented with someone with more skills and experience than myself. And I've heard it from colleagues when they've alo been presented with the situation.

The difference is that I'm not afraid to confront the real issue. I don't hide behind self delusional clap-trap. I find it infinitely more valuable and useful to be honest with myself first of all.

I am not quite sure what you are banging on about. My comment about codgers was to give a response (frivolous I admit) to an earlier comment blaming youth for project failures. Quite ridiculous which is why my response was tongue in cheek.

As for projects failing, how do you really define failure. Projects do not really allow for sudden changes for example. Halfway through a Project things may change and the project is either canned or changed. some would argue that such instances represent failure and others would argue the opposite.

I do not accept your negative generalisation in the first place.

Let me take your point about "experience" and older people being threatening. That is entirely your subjective view. Can you not accept that one man's skills and experience is another mans set in his ways. The skill of management is steer a path through the project that takes account of and exploits to full potential the resources that are available.

When many older people find themselves unwanted they perhaps should look more closely at themselves (anyone for example ever says "I have been doing this for xxx thousand years" should be shot) than and the choices that they have made in their careers rather than try to pin blame on others.

[sasguru]

Did your school reports always say ...

"Dodgy makes the best of his ability. His position in class is consistently in the top half."

However they probably advised against your trying for Oxbridge.

[EternalOptimist]

bl**dy hell dodgy

if someone older doesnt get a job(cant get work) should they be examining themselves or examining their birth certificate ? make yer mind up.

Any self respecting pro constantly reexamines their attitudes , I know you do.
You wont stop when you reach 50 in 25 years time and neither will I in (cough) years time.

Contractors are in the enviable posistion of being able to amend their birth certificate, via the CV -

[DodgyAgent]

school report

"Dodgy makes the best of his ability. His position in class is consistently in the top half."

However they probably advised against your trying for Oxbridge.

Sorry Sas you are wrong, my reports always said that I was" lazy, which would be fine if only he had the intellect to make up for it". Oxbridge was never on the cards. I never even went to University...

Dodgy in "Do I hear screams of disbelief?" mode

[DodgyAgent]

a compliment

bl**dy hell dodgy

if someone older doesnt get a job(cant get work) should they be examining themselves or examining their birth certificate ? make yer mind up.

Any self respecting pro constantly reexamines their attitudes , I know you do.
You wont stop when you reach 50 in 25 years time and neither will I in (cough) years time.

Contractors are in the enviable posistion of being able to amend their birth certificate, via the CV -

Optimist that is the closest I have been to receiving a compliment on this board.. I am 45.