Labour in 'lowest ever' poll rating

[snaw]

The trouble with defining yourself as a lefty or a righty is that your judgements are made accord to where you see yourself politically as opposed to judging everything on its own merits.

Politically I'm definitely a swing voter. I've more chance of voting Tory than labour at the next election - it's when the tories veer off to the right (Like the last 20 years) they put me off. And I've voted for neither.

[Lucy]

Why the Independent specifically? I'd be a bit offended if a man was reading any newspaper over my shoulder while he was, you know, "doing it".

It is in response to a pm someone here sent me. He knows who he is.

Other than that, The (so called) Independent is anything but. The newspaper that every week predicts armageddon, with contributors like Robert Fisk who believes in the 9/11 conspiracy theories. It's just not serious journalism.

[snaw]

Hong Kong?
Singapore?

I don't think welfare has done little other than keep them in subsistence, all it has done is made people obese rather than malnourished.

The taxation route is a cop-out. 'I've paid my taxes, I don't have to give a toss about the poor anymore'

If this system works so well then why don't we pay benefits to all people around the world? The millions in Africa are so much more needy than the average chav brit with their telly, fridge and heated home. Who decides which human life is worth more than another?

Well A, let's not pick out city states as examples as they don't conform to many broader rules which apply to countries.

And B. Hong Kong, no poverty - are you having a laugh? Not so sure about Singapore, but I suspect life can be far from rosy if you're an Indian say, living there ...

I could list a much longer list that backs up my point, but there's so many and you'll clearly not get it anyway.

[Lucy]

The trouble with defining yourself as a lefty or a righty is that your judgements are made accord to where you see yourself politically as opposed to judging everything on its own merits.

Well exactly, and it also is indicative of not understanding that politics is not linear.

Freedom is what I believe in, I am not ten years old, I don't need a nanny.

[Lucy]

Well A, let's not pick out city states as examples as they don't conform to many broader rules which apply to countries.

And B. Hong Kong, no poverty - are you having a laugh? Not so sure about Singapore, but I suspect life can be far from rosy if you're an Indian say, living there ...

I could list a much longer list that backs up my point, but there's so many and you'll clearly not get it anyway.

Well please explain what a great success the welfare state has been in addressing the poverty in major cities in the UK.

I was born in Hong Kong and visit very often, so I do know what I am on about.


I would really you rather stick to the point than attack me with put downs etc

[sasguru]

Oh FFS are we still talking about this?
I think we've all agreed that the welfare state is bloated and should be cut back (apart from university education which should be free - it's the best example of a benefit designed to help people to help themselves).
Comparing Hong Kong (a city state with a Confucian culture) with Britain is laughable.

[snaw]

Well please explain what a great success the welfare state has been in addressing the poverty in major cities in the UK.

I was born in Hong Kong and visit very often, so I do know what I am on about.


I would really you rather stick to the point than attack me with put downs etc

What put down? I was sticking to the point, where did I diverge from it? Are you saying there is no poverty in HK? You're not the only person that's been there ...

And the welfare state, in principle means no one starves, everyone gets an education, everyone should have a roof over there head and clothes on their back. You ever read or listened to elderly people talk about a very different society to the one we live in. Doesn't sound very nice at all. Sounds quite brutal to be honest.

[DimPrawn]

Well please explain what a great success the welfare state has been in addressing the poverty in major cities in the UK.

I was born in Hong Kong and visit very often, so I do know what I am on about.


I would really you rather stick to the point than attack me with put downs etc

Do you have "Made in Hong Kong" tattooed on your @rse?

[Lucy]

What put down? I was sticking to the point, where did I diverge from it? Are you saying there is no poverty in HK? You're not the only person that's been there ...
And the welfare state, in principle means no one starves, everyone gets an education, everyone should have a roof over there head and clothes on their back. You ever read or listened to elderly people talk about a very different society to the one we live in. Doesn't sound very nice at all. Sounds quite brutal to be honest.

You might consider statements like the one in bold and the previous one of 'you wouldn't get it' as put downs, anyway it is beside the point.

I probably have a deeper knowledge of HK than most people here, including yourself. I have seen many many more homeless/drug addicted/malnourished people in London than I have ever done in HK.

If the welfare state is working then why are there so many people homeless? Could you consider for a moment that if poverty was addressed by charities that they would care a lot more than a nameless/faceless beaurorat handing over a cheque every week. The welfare state provides a mediocre exsitence to the majority of the people in it.

[Lucy]

Do you have "Made in Hong Kong" tattooed on your @rse?

No. But I do have a massive scar.