Labour in 'lowest ever' poll rating

[ratewhore]

No one should starve, go cold, have no access to education, that kind of thing.

What you're talking about there is poverty. Not the poncey NL definition of poverty where you must have a dishwasher and a satellite dish but real poverty, when you can't put food on the table or heat your house.

And you're right, a civilised society should be able to offer this to it's citizens. As DA says though, you don't need to be a lefty to carry that view...

[snaw]

fine,

so do i, but you dont need to be a leftie in believing that.

Strange, I know I've had debates with you where you vehemently disagreed with most of that apart from the education bit.

[Lucy]

Well for me that's what I'd classify as a civilised society, at a minimum. The majority of the society we live in agrees with me. Appreciate there'll be a disproportionate bias here which probably doesn't, but we live in a democratic modern world so you gotta pay.

I don't think you answered the questions.

Why do we need to be forced?

[snaw]

And you're right, a civilised society should be able to offer this to it's citizens. As DA says though, you don't need to be a lefty to carry that view...

True, that's just one of many views I hold which would put me on the left of the political spectrum. Was merely responding to DA's question. Then again like anyone else I hold some views that probably are right wing as well. But generally speaking I'm a lefty, and it all amkes sense to me to be that way. I imagine it's the same the other way round.

[snaw]

I don't think you answered the questions.

Why do we need to be forced?

Because history shows that if you don't, you end up with a situation like Dickensian London. Go to any country where there is no support network and show me where you don't see extreme poverty.

[DodgyAgent]

Strange, I know I've had debates with you where you vehemently disagreed with most of that apart from the education bit.

It is do with getting the balance between motivation to work and help in hard times. Unfortunately the left have tipped this balance into creating an entire class of people that is its own creation. The left has subsequently cynically exploited this sector into becoming the core of its powerbase.

Where we have disagreed is in our interpretation of this balance and more importantly how basic human needs are delivered.

[DodgyAgent]

Because history shows that if you don't, you end up with a situation like Dickensian London. Go to any country where there is no support network and show me where you don't see extreme poverty.

quite

[DodgyAgent]

True, that's just one of many views I hold which would put me on the left of the political spectrum. Was merely responding to DA's question. Then again like anyone else I hold some views that probably are right wing as well. But generally speaking I'm a lefty, and it all amkes sense to me to be that way. I imagine it's the same the other way round.

The trouble with defining yourself as a lefty or a righty is that your judgements are made accord to where you see yourself politically as opposed to judging everything on its own merits.

[Marina]

And, no, I could never 'make love' to a man who reads 'The Independent'...

Why the Independent specifically? I'd be a bit offended if a man was reading any newspaper over my shoulder while he was, you know, "doing it".

[Lucy]

Because history shows that if you don't, you end up with a situation like Dickensian London. Go to any country where there is no support network and show me where you don't see extreme poverty.

Hong Kong?
Singapore?

I don't think welfare has done little other than keep them in subsistence, all it has done is made people obese rather than malnourished.

The taxation route is a cop-out. 'I've paid my taxes, I don't have to give a toss about the poor anymore'

If this system works so well then why don't we pay benefits to all people around the world? The millions in Africa are so much more needy than the average chav brit with their telly, fridge and heated home. Who decides which human life is worth more than another?