Labour in 'lowest ever' poll rating

[DodgyAgent]

What put down? I was sticking to the point, where did I diverge from it? Are you saying there is no poverty in HK? You're not the only person that's been there ...

And the welfare state, in principle means no one starves, everyone gets an education, everyone should have a roof over there head and clothes on their back. You ever read or listened to elderly people talk about a very different society to the one we live in. Doesn't sound very nice at all. Sounds quite brutal to be honest.

weapons are "in principle" made to keep the peace.
Adolf Hitler "in principle" wanted peace in Europe
Josef Fritzl wanted "in principle" a happy family

[sasguru]

You might consider statements like the one in bold and the previous one of 'you wouldn't get it' as put downs, anyway it is beside the point.

I probably have a deeper knowledge of HK than most people here, including yourself. I have seen many many more homeless/drug addicted/malnourished people in London than I have ever done in HK.

If the welfare state is working then why are there so many people homeless? Could you consider for a moment that if poverty was addressed by charities that they would care a lot more than a nameless/faceless beaurorat handing over a cheque every week. The welfare state provides a mediocre exsitence to the majority of the people in it.

Perhaps the lower incidence of homeless in HK represents the stronger family bonds that apply in Asian cultures as opposed to more individualistic Anglo-Saxon society
And why not address Snaw's point that we've tried using charities before - in Victorian London and things were much, much worse.
Like Dodgy your one-track mind stops you seeing the complexities that exist in complex human organisation.
It's like arguing with a child.

[Dow Jones]

Scarred for life

No. But I do have a massive scar.

Failed liposuction?

[sasguru]

Failed liposuction?

Prefrontal Lobotomy.

[snaw]

You might consider statements like the one in bold and the previous one of 'you wouldn't get it' as put downs, anyway it is beside the point.

Christ, if you're that sensitive why bother posting on a forum at all.

I probably have a deeper knowledge of HK than most people here, including yourself. I have seen many many more homeless/drug addicted/malnourished people in London than I have ever done in HK.

You most certainly do know HK better, that doesn't mean that you get carte blanche to make any statement you choose and for it not to be questioned.

There are homeless people in London, but there shouldn't be in theory. That's not an argument against a welfare state - they'd still be homeless if there was none, and there'd be a shed load more of them as well.

If the welfare state is working then why are there so many people homeless? Could you consider for a moment that if poverty was addressed by charities that they would care a lot more than a nameless/faceless beaurorat handing over a cheque every week. The welfare state provides a mediocre exsitence to the majority of the people in it.

Where does this Charity only approach work, in the modern world or in the past in Britain? And what stats do you have to show that the welfare state causes homelessness, which you seem to be implying.

[Lucy]

Failed liposuction?

No.

Accident as a three year old child, was a chasing a boy, fell over and landed on a wall bracket that was being used to hold up a playpen.

Have never chased boys since.

[EternalOptimist]

No.

Accident as a three year old child, was a chasing a boy, fell over and landed on a wall bracket that was being used to hold up a playpen.

Have never chased boys since.

Jesus, there's enough material here for about three months

[Lucy]

Where does this Charity only approach work, in the modern world or in the past in Britain? And what stats do you have to show that the welfare state causes homelessness, which you seem to be implying.

The question you won't answer and still won't answer is, if you weren't taxed would you give to charities of your own volition?

The welfare state doesn't cause homelessness, but it has hardly cured it, either, and the people it has housed puts them in ghetto estates rife with crime, drugs etc If this is a great victory over poverty, given the vast amount that has been poured into it, I can't call it a success. I am suggesting that the status quo has failed.

[snaw]

weapons are "in principle" made to keep the peace.
Adolf Hitler "in principle" wanted peace in Europe
Josef Fritzl wanted "in principle" a happy family

Weapons are made to kill people. They might deter someone from trying to kill you but it's not there primary function.

Adolf Hitler never wanted peace in Europe? That's news to me. Or do you mean peace in Europe once he'd conquered all the bits he wanted, and got rid of all the people he didn't like?

Who knows what Josef Fritzel wanted. Well you do, but you're great at assuming you know what motivates people.

One of your worst arguments yet DA, I know you can do much better than this.

Poor effort.

[sasguru]

The question you won't answer and still won't answer is, if you weren't taxed would you give to charities of your own volition?

The welfare state doesn't cause homelessness, but it has hardly cured it, either, and the people it has housed puts them in ghetto estates rife with crime, drugs etc If this is a great victory over poverty, given the vast amount that has been poured into it, I can't call it a success. I am suggesting that the status quo has failed.

What has Snaw's giving or not giving have to do with anything?

And yes the welfare state is not perfect, but on the other hand far few people are dying of poverty related conditions than was the case 150 years ago when the average person could expect to live to about 40.
Are you really suggesting we go back to that world? Charities took care of the bulk of things then

I suggest you don't post any more. You complain when you get insulted yet that is the only rational response to your silly ideas.