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Why was this not murder?

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    Why was this not murder?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/7117016.stm

    River death pair are found guilty

    The pair had claimed Atkins fell in by himself
    Two boys who attacked a 25-year-old man before dumping his body in a river have been convicted of manslaughter.
    Thomas Orme, 15, and James Quantrill, 17, set Toby Atkin's clothes alight before dumping his body in the River Welland, in Spalding, on 17 May.

    Nottingham Crown Court heard Mr Atkin, from Spalding, was more than five times the drink drive alcohol limit.

    The teenagers, who denied the charges, will be sentenced on 4 January but the judge confirmed they would go to jail.

    Judge Michael Stokes said: "It's inevitable that you will receive custodial sentences. I want to make that absolutely plain."

    Phone images

    He added: "Given their appalling criminal records and the nature of the offence, it seems to me that it is in the public interest that they should be named."

    The court heard that Orme filmed part of the attack on his mobile phone.

    Quantrill branded Mr Atkin's face and neck with a cigarette lighter to leave burn marks in the shape of smiling faces on his skin.

    The teenagers, both from Spalding, then urinated on his unconscious body before pushing him in the river, the court had heard.

    After the guilty verdicts were returned, the court was told that Orme had 13 previous convictions and Quantrill had 24.

    Family's 'torture'

    Detective Sergeant Chris Davison, who investigated the case, said: "We are just pleased that the family have got the chance for some peace of mind and closure, to know that the jury accepted that the boys placed the unconscious body of their son into the river and caused him to die.

    "It's not a run-of-the-mill case for Spalding. It's a very serious incident for a small market town and to have such an incident occur during broad daylight is of some concern.

    "We are pleased that we have been able to bring the offenders to justice."

    In a statement, Mr Atkin's family said: "To sit in court over the past few weeks and to hear of what our son went through, that he was urinated on and that his face and eyelashes were burned, has been torture for us.

    "Toby had a gentleness about him, which in my opinion is very rare in young men nowadays."

    =======================================

    I fail to understand why this was not murder. The guy was attacked and dumped in a river. Had he not been put in the river he would not have died
    Rule Number 1 - Assuming that you have a valid contract in place always try to get your poo onto your timesheet, provided that the timesheet is valid for your current contract and covers the period of time that you are billing for.

    I preferred version 1!

    #2
    Because the jails are FULL and it carries a shorter sentence.

    HTH

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by TonyEnglish View Post
      "It's not a run-of-the-mill case for Spalding. It's a very serious incident for a small market town and to have such an incident occur during broad daylight is of some concern. "
      FFS!!!! It's not a run-of-the-mill case for fooking Baghdad!! As was said earlier, you really have to go the extra mile to feel the full wrath of the courts these days. I suggest not paying your Council Tax. mad
      “The period of the disintegration of the European Union has begun. And the first vessel to have departed is Britain”

      Comment


        #4
        I guess its not murder because the prosecution couldnt prove it was these guys intention to kill the fulla...merely that their actions lead to his death.

        Mailman

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Mailman View Post
          I guess its not murder because the prosecution couldnt prove it was these guys intention to kill the fulla...merely that their actions lead to his death.
          Much like pointing a gun at somebody, pulling the trigger and claiming to be suprised by the outcome.

          At the risk of sounding like a Daily Mail reader, how does somebody have 24 previous convictions for anything and still be walking around? Even if it's 24 convictions for dropping litter there needs to be an escalating scale of penalties otherwise what's the point having the law?
          Will work inside IR35. Or for food.

          Comment


            #6
            Here's something to think about.

            Look at crime from the governments perspective.

            How much does having a common criminal roaming around robbing and generally being a coont cost the government? Not a lot.

            How much does putting crims behind bars cost? About £50k pa. for each scrote they lock up.


            It ain't rocket science to see why the streets are full of murderers, rapists, muggers and the like.

            HTH

            Comment


              #7
              Agree with Vectraman. Whatever the intentions, if death is a result of a deliberate and premeditated action that is likely to cause death, it should be murder.
              bloggoth

              If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
              John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

              Comment


                #8
                Probably easier to secure a conviction of manslaughter, than of murder.

                iirc, the american equivalent of manslaughter is 3rd degree murder.
                Last edited by NotAllThere; 28 November 2007, 16:21.
                Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Very few manslaughters are murders. In fact, in the past, a manslaughter would generally be charged as GBH.

                  Saying all that, actus reus: pushing an unconcious person into a canal, would mean death is fairly certain, and therefore IMHO is murder. Yet, mens rea, requires intention, and I guess the prosecution couldn't prove they intended death, although what they did intend, as if it could possibly be anything else, is one of those things that makes the law appear silly to lay people.
                  Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
                  threadeds website, and here's my blog.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    After reading the story in full...

                    IMO they are evil and have no commitment or respect for others, there age is no excuse. Only a punishment the fits the crime is justified, this was not delivered. If an example is not to be made for such evilness why not set them free and let nature take it's course.

                    If this happened in Glasgae I could tell you what tomorrow's headlines would be... should that pair be seen wondering the streets.

                    It's a good kick up the @$£^ they need, hanging is too good for them.
                    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". Mark Twain

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