£1,300,000,000,000 in debt

[milanbenes]

yep Troll,

I always laugh when I read quotes like this...

'“What is certain is we can't compete with the cheaper countries in manufacturing.” ',


just goes to show the propaganda is working


hmm, I wonder how it is possible that Germany is the world's largest exporter ?

German economy starting to show good signs too, just as the UK is beginning to sink, next ten years will be fun, as long as you live in the Eurozone.

Milan.

[scooterscot]

The problem was that it was longer that a couple of years. Some of those industries had been basket cases for decades. ...

I agree the problem certainly extends it’s roots probably back to the last government, not just the last couple of years. However looking backwards is not going to be the place to find a solution.

“I don't know what you are suggesting we should have done. In 95% of cases, subsidising manufacturing industry didn't work.”

Subsidising was never a solution a temporary stopgap in the hope a solution would present itself, perhaps. I believe the core of the problem was education, change was a dirty word back then in manufacturing. It’s going to take us years to recover from that one, better hope the services go the distance.

Even Dyson has done it, great innovation, yet manufacturers out in the Far East, it’s disgraceful, the hands on skill is just not available and where it is it is not affordable because Joe bloggs has a 400K mortgage to pay for. Whit a £$@ up mess our economy is in.

Railways are a bit of a closed loop in my opinion and should be non profit organisations, it’s a service for the people for peat’s sake, not to build up shareholders portfolio, nothing wrong with privatising them I suppose it’s been good for quality I like some of the new rolling stock, every penny earned should be poured straight back instead of squandering it away.

Just read today London underground the most expensive rail system in the world, the cost of a day ticket would last me a week on Hong Kong’s MTR, which is cleaner and more efficient. The maintenance costs I’ve seen for the LUG are extreme, doomed I tell yeah…

[threaded]

Well you go and spoil it all by making silly statements like this. Can you substantiate your assertion? The only reason Swiss banking has succeeded over the years is their strict privacy laws and political stability. Recently with the Nazi gold scandal, they've lost the competitive advantage of the privacy laws which have been diluted. Also the anti-nuclear bunkers which used to be compulsory are not anymore.
Regarding the UK's lack of manufacturing, it may be that this is a comparative advantage. For how long can Germany especially manufacture at home with their high wages? Making cars is almost completely automated now and can be done anywhere in the world. I think only the premium brands will continue in Germany - the VWs of this world will start manufacturing in cheaper places as they have started to do already: Czech, Thailand etc. Even Mercedes now has factories in SA and Alabama (which is a cheap 3rd world like part of the US)

And some BMWs are made in America.

[milanbenes]

ScooterScoot,

you are mistaken when you say...

'Even Dyson has done it, great innovation, yet manufacturers out in the Far East, it’s disgraceful,',


this is wrong,

Dyson wanted to build a massive factory in Wiltshire but couldn't get the planning permission, nimby's wouldn't have it, so in the end he gave up and built the factory abroad.

This is such a shame, yes factories are ugly but factories = employment, and our nimbys don't seem to understand that

Same for the farmers trying to put in massive polytunnel complexes to compete with the spanish selling fruit and veg all year round to Britain's 60 million consumers, farmers try and put up the polytunnels and get them stopped by nimbys complaining to the planners.

What the nimbys don't seem to understand is that they cannot have everything.

Milan.

[scooterscot]

Nimbys huh.... I say nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Time for lunch feeling the fury...

[sasguru]

yep Troll,

I always laugh when I read quotes like this...

'“What is certain is we can't compete with the cheaper countries in manufacturing.” ',


just goes to show the propaganda is working


hmm, I wonder how it is possible that Germany is the world's largest exporter ?

German economy starting to show good signs too, just as the UK is beginning to sink, next ten years will be fun, as long as you live in the Eurozone.

Milan.

But the German national culture is good at making things. We're not. You're prob too young to remember the crappy British Leyland products of the 70s? So what would your solution have been? Use govt subsidies to prop up crappy companies so they can make more tulipe?

[AtW]

But the German national culture is good at making things. We're not.

What I find really ironic that Chinese pots were made in Stoke-on-Trent very successfully to undercut very expensive Chinese imports, but now it is all gone and it is China probably that makes all that. At least canals are still here - which proves that investment in fundamental infrastucture will last longer

[The Master]

But the German national culture is good at making things. We're not. You're prob too young to remember the crappy British Leyland products of the 70s? So what would your solution have been? Use govt subsidies to prop up crappy companies so they can make more tulipe?

Yes, according to Benn0.

[milanbenes]

I'm all for subsidisation

Spanish subsidise their mines, I reckon subsidising our coal industry would have been cheaper than the socio-economic wreck we have now in the mining regions of the uk

Milan.

[Troll]

But the German national culture is good at making things. We're not. You're prob too young to remember the crappy British Leyland products of the 70s? So what would your solution have been? Use govt subsidies to prop up crappy companies so they can make more tulipe?

No I remember BL tulipe... and owned a Land Rover (then part of BL but a good basic product) - most of the problems were on component side - Joe Lucas springs to mind, but Italian manufacturers had similar issues
I also recall the Meridian lock in - & the point being why can Triumph successfully make bikes now but not then?
Absolutely no value (except to prop up unemployment) in shovelling government subsidies into failing products, but then again a lot of manufacturing went to the wall in early 80's when government pursued a monetarist policy and a artificially high pound.

You say the Germans are good at making things - but the Japanese & Koreans... and now the Chinese, all in a short period of time acquired the skills to compete, yet we were happy to let manufacturing skills and infrastructure go?

In terms of adding value taking a bit of raw metal and bashing it into something useful to sell generates the highest returns of capital, it just seems so unfashionable to do so in the UK these days