Electric car charging prices

[TestMangler]

Poor Ernie! That bastard "Two Ton Ted from Teddington" deserves a good shoeing!

I'm sure Ernie's ghostly gold tops a' rattlin' in their crates was enough punishment......

[Mordac]

An ICE car can be worthless in about 10 years (or less) if the engine is fooked so, what's your real point? Many people keep spouting this supposed 'fact' that EV batteries only last 'about 10 years.' This is a myth except in the case of first gen Nissan Leaf's which had no BMS, naive people repeatedly charging to full capacity on a (for that time) fast charge. Not the case today.

My real point is Li-Ion batteries have a real-world lifespan of about 10 years; I do have a 14 year old laptop which doesn't work at all unless it's plugged in permanently. I only keep it on as it has a DVD burner on board, which I still find useful. My Iphone is about 5 years old and holds about a third of the charge it had when new. Oh, and an ICE engine can be repaired, if one knows what one is doing, whereas a spent Li-Ion battery array has to be dispatched to landfill (although that's technically illegal, there are no local recycling facilities currently available to the consumer unless you are willing to pay for it). Where's the sense in that?

[DoctorStrangelove]

Obviously, the youthful forum members (like Eek ) won't have understood that one.

Hi Yo Silver! Away!

And it's not so much the tin worm and mechanical faults that kill cars these days: rather it's the unrepairable electronic black boxes that they are stuffed to the gunwhales with instead.

[woody1]

EVs don't seem to make financial sense at the moment, unless you do high mileage and can charge from home on a low tariff.

Purchase price is much higher than similar ICE (therefore more ££££ lost each year in depreciation). Public charging is about the same per mile, if not more, than petrol. Insurance is considerably higher. Even the road tax advantage seems to be largely disappearing from next year.

[TestMangler]

My real point is Li-Ion batteries have a real-world lifespan of about 10 years; I do have a 14 year old laptop which doesn't work at all unless it's plugged in permanently. I only keep it on as it has a DVD burner on board, which I still find useful. My Iphone is about 5 years old and holds about a third of the charge it had when new. Oh, and an ICE engine can be repaired, if one knows what one is doing, whereas a spent Li-Ion battery array has to be dispatched to landfill (although that's technically illegal, there are no local recycling facilities currently available to the consumer unless you are willing to pay for it). Where's the sense in that?

I think current (and previous) electric cars will become the PPI and Endowment Mortgages of the future. Some ambulance chaser will get a court ruling regarding miss-selling and then the social media, sky channels and Sunday supplements will be full of 'did you buy an electric car ? You may be entitled to compensation' type adverts.

[BolshieBastard]

My real point is Li-Ion batteries have a real-world lifespan of about 10 years; I do have a 14 year old laptop which doesn't work at all unless it's plugged in permanently. I only keep it on as it has a DVD burner on board, which I still find useful. My Iphone is about 5 years old and holds about a third of the charge it had when new. Oh, and an ICE engine can be repaired, if one knows what one is doing, whereas a spent Li-Ion battery array has to be dispatched to landfill (although that's technically illegal, there are no local recycling facilities currently available to the consumer unless you are willing to pay for it). Where's the sense in that?

Here we go (yet) again! Another one who compares Li ion batteries in their laptop or iPhone to those in an EV. Yes, they are both battery powered but the battery management system in EVs (again, excepting 1st generation Nissan Leafs) is total different to anything in your 14 year old laptop and even 5 year old iPhone, even if they have a BMS. So no, saying EV batteries have a 'real world lifespan of 10 years' is complete and utter bollocks.

Your laptop and phone charger give a full, 100% charge rate. An EV charger does not. It's charge rate will be variable right up to the 80% capacity then will be slowed by the BMS to allow any 'lagging' cells to come up to the same level as the rest of the cells in the pack, up to a virtually 100% capacity. I say virtual 100% because EV batteries have a buffer so they do not overcharge like what can happen with a phone or laptop battery.

Oh, and EV battery packs can be repaired. Even if an EV battery is no longer viable for use in a car, they can be repurposed into power packs suitable for other uses. this idea that all old EV batteries are going to end up in landfill is no longer the case. So again, what's your point or really, what's your agenda because you just seem to be spouting shoite like the jso environment campaigners?

[BolshieBastard]

EVs don't seem to make financial sense at the moment, unless you do high mileage and can charge from home on a low tariff.

Purchase price is much higher than similar ICE (therefore more ££££ lost each year in depreciation). Public charging is about the same per mile, if not more, than petrol. Insurance is considerably higher. Even the road tax advantage seems to be largely disappearing from next year.

Yes, EVs still being 'new tech' is priced at a premium. Manufacturers also saw \ see EVs as a way to push up the price of vehicles after all the cut throat discounting of ICE's until the glorious pandemic hit.

To make having an EV viable, you really need solar panels and a storeage battery so you can charge at home overnight and not use electricity from the grid. This means an additional finance cost on top of the EV but of course, once you have solar and a battery, you're also reducing your general electricity bill and selling surplus back to the grid.

A benefit of EVs is you 'fill them up' while you sleep or do other things rather than have to drive onto a petrol station forecourt and waste 10 minutes of your life every time, not to mention wondering if you've just put petrol in your diesel while trying to avoid the half gallon or so spilt on the ground by the last user.

Id have solar panels and a battery tomorrow. Unfortunately SWMBO doesnt see the benefit of spending about 10 grand now on a decent system at our age and prefers instead to pay 2+ grand a year on leccie bills for the foreseeable future!

[woody1]

Yes, they are both battery powered but the battery management system in EVs (again, excepting 1st generation Nissan Leafs) is total different to anything in your 14 year old laptop and even 5 year old iPhone, even if they have a BMS.

Yep, this concurs with what I've read. 20 years/200,000 miles battery life is realistic. Apparently, Tesla are aiming for 1,000,000 miles.

[tazdevil]

Id have solar panels and a battery tomorrow. Unfortunately SWMBO doesnt see the benefit of spending about 10 grand now on a decent system at our age and prefers instead to pay 2+ grand a year on leccie bills for the foreseeable future!

I've had Solar PV since 2011 and in all that time the FITS rebate has covered the electricity bill and usually the heating oil bill as well making for a zero energy cost most years even without battery storage. We live in a 4 bed draughty house in North Yorkshire and run lots of energy hungry appliances such as my computers and office aircon. The system was £14K at the time but would be a lot cheaper now and that was paid off a long time ago £2K a year is silly when the technology exists to get that down to zero

[sadkingbilly]

I've had Solar PV since 2011 and in all that time the FITS rebate has covered the electricity bill and usually the heating oil bill as well making for a zero energy cost most years even without battery storage. We live in a 4 bed draughty house in North Yorkshire and run lots of energy hungry appliances such as my computers and office aircon. The system was £14K at the time but would be a lot cheaper now and that was paid off a long time ago £2K a year is silly when the technology exists to get that down to zero

really?