Labour Party

[Lance]

Many of the things I have been moaning about.

1. Illegal immigration - Rwanda & chasing the gangs.
2. Cancelling HS2 before its cost exceeds GDP.
3. The unemployed back to work.
4. Build houses for all the new citizens.
5. lie cheat & steal to get back into power.

1. not a vision. Just a policy that they've failed to implement.
2. not a vision. A policy that has been implemented.
3. which party doesn't have that vision? And as we have nearly full employment not sure that is the slamdunk vote winner.
4. What new citizens? Immigrants? Great idea. I missed that vision. Was it written on the side of a train?
5. OK. You got me there. That's always been their raison d'etre.

[SueEllen]

Bollocks. The current Tory government is a shambles, full of second rate politicians with nobody even approaching the status of "statesman". They have a vision but it is not what i recognise as a Conservative one, and even if it were they don't have the skills or balls to implement one.

But what escapes your simplistic view is that the current Labour leader and his shadow cabinet are even worse.

We are stuck with a choice of two disasters. I'm not going to vote for the one with a consistent record of buggering up the country. Sorry if that offends your rather childish viewpoint.

Sir Keir Starmer became an MP in 2015. Angela Rayner also became an MP in 2015. This means neither were involved in the last Labour government as the Tories have been in power since May 2010.

This means you can't say their Labour government has been a disaster as they have never been in government.

However while Rishi Sunak was also elected in 2015 he is the current PM and leader of the Tory party.

[Snooky]

I'm not going to vote for the one with a consistent record of buggering up the country

So you won't be voting Conservative? Gotcha.

[malvolio]

So you won't be voting Conservative? Gotcha.

Well that's one way of looking at it.

Actually I may not even bother. The sitting Tory MP is a complete waste of space who never appears in the constituency, doesn't do surgeries and never responds to emails, the Lib Dem lady is a fright and the likely Labour another apparatchik who knows damn all. Wonder if the MRLs will be standing...

[malvolio]

Sir Keir Starmer became an MP in 2015. Angela Rayner also became an MP in 2015. This means neither were involved in the last Labour government as the Tories have been in power since May 2010.

This means you can't say their Labour government has been a disaster as they have never been in government.

However while Rishi Sunak was also elected in 2015 he is the current PM and leader of the Tory party.

What a pathetic argument. Starmer is far closer to the ideals of the old Labour governments than he is to Blair's pseudo Toryism. Not very long ago he was the biggest cheerleader for Corbyn's fantasy left wing policies. That apart, if you don't believe in the core principles of your party* why are you a a member of it?


*That's the problem with the Tories as well, of course. They are in thrall to failed economic theories and Thatcher's (and Truss's!) monetarist ideas on taxation and growth economics are totally ignored

[SueEllen]

What a pathetic argument.

Huh?

I'm pointing out these people have not run a government or even been Mayors therefore we don't know how they would run a government if elected.

If Andy Burnham, Sadiq Khan or another Labour Mayor suddenly became an MP then leader of the Labour party, like a certain Boris Johnson, then we would have a good idea of how they would run a government.

[JustKeepSwimming]

So you won't be voting Conservative? Gotcha.

Im not a "all tories are c&nts" sort. This tory party since and including Boris is just shocking. Policy wise I don't think Boris was awful, but he is a pathological liar and caused serious damage to "good governance" of the state. He planted a seed that has completely rotted the current tory party.

Politicians used to speak half truths. Gets pointed out and they would deflect. Now senior tory MPs outright lie, get shown the receipts and double down and claim woke fake news.

The Tories need to be wiped out and spend a good decade in opposition to get their tulip back in good order.

[malvolio]

Huh?

I'm pointing out these people have not run a government or even been Mayors therefore we don't know how they would run a government if elected.

If Andy Burnham, Sadiq Khan or another Labour Mayor suddenly became an MP then leader of the Labour party, like a certain Boris Johnson, then we would have a good idea of how they would run a government.

And I'm pointing out that Starmer has been shadow PM for a while now and if he hasn't found out how to run a government then he is even more of a failure that he currently is. It is, after all, one of the key roles of being in an opposition shadow cabinet.

And if your suggested exemplars are samples of who you believe would make a good PM, then you are even more deluded that I thought. They are good at getting elected and spending money given to them by Government. To see how well they do it on a wider scale, go live in Wales for a while. Come to that, almost none of the current ministers on either side of the house have run proper fee-earning businesses and have no experience of how the non-civil service operates in the real world. That's why they are so good at making stupid mistakes and not understanding the impact of their (or their advisors') decisions.

Still, we will soon have a chance to find out the worth of a Labour government. Then call me Cassandra.

[JustKeepSwimming]

And I'm pointing out that Starmer has been shadow PM for a while now and if he hasn't found out how to run a government then he is even more of a failure that he currently is. It is, after all, one of the key roles of being in an opposition shadow cabinet.

And if your suggested exemplars are samples of who you believe would make a good PM, then you are even more deluded that I thought. They are good at getting elected and spending money given to them by Government. To see how well they do it on a wider scale, go live in Wales for a while. Come to that, almost none of the current ministers on either side of the house have run proper fee-earning businesses and have no experience of how the non-civil service operates in the real world. That's why they are so good at making stupid mistakes and not understanding the impact of their (or their advisors') decisions.

Still, we will soon have a chance to find out the worth of a Labour government. Then call me Cassandra.

Classic boomer.

Has no experience of being in government therefore they are unqualified from ever being in government.

[malvolio]

Classic boomer.

Has no experience of being in government therefore they are unqualified from ever being in government.

That is a complete non sequitur. Go back to sleep.