Good start magic Auntie

[vetran]

Backed up by polling.

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/0...voted-and-why/

'Ever closer union' aka 'sovereignty' were the top 3 reasons for the leave vote.

cheers pretty picture!

[vetran]

There is no deep misunderstanding between memberstates. There is systemic delusion among the EU elites.

Memberstates, as in the populace, are broadly in agreement. Immigration is OK if controlled. Mass uncontrolled immigration is not OK.

Fortunately for us, FPTP keeps extremists out of power. Same can't be said for PR in Europe and why you will start seeing more far right parties gaining power.

Sadly its coming ein reich, ein volk=AFD

https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...-wins-in-east/

France has moved to the right

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...right-rhetoric

even the BBC have noticed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66056375

Most people just want to get on, work & raise children in peace.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Sadly its coming ein reich, ein volk=AFD

https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...-wins-in-east/

France has moved to the right

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...right-rhetoric

even the BBC have noticed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66056375

Most people just want to get on, work & raise children in peace.

Big issue is im not sure what can actually be done regardless of who is in power. Human Rights laws are a real hinderance and I think the danger is that we reach breaking point on immigration that countries turn around and say '**** it' and roll back the legislation en masse. Whereas if we could have grown up discussion we might be able to amend 70 year old laws to meet the challenges of today whilst maintain the overall principles.

[SueEllen]

Big issue is im not sure what can actually be done regardless of who is in power. Human Rights laws are a real hinderance and I think the danger is that we reach breaking point on immigration that countries turn around and say '**** it' and roll back the legislation en masse. Whereas if we could have grown up discussion we might be able to amend 70 year old laws to meet the challenges of today whilst maintain the overall principles.

Italy is one of the members of the ECHR who mostly ignores them, so human rights laws are only a hindrance if you obey the ECHR.

[eek]

Italy is one of the members of the ECHR who mostly ignores them, so human rights laws are only a hindrance if you obey the ECHR.

Yep - the biggest problem the UK has with the ECHR and the EU was that we actually tried to comply with all the laws - most of countries ignore the bits they really don't like...

[JustKeepSwimming]

Yep - the biggest problem the UK has with the ECHR and the EU was that we actually tried to comply with all the laws - most of countries ignore the bits they really don't like...

If I recall for ECJ UK was average for notices received, very low for ignoring those notices and highest success rate when we did challenge the notice. Notice is like a warning from the court that they think a memberstate is not in compliance.

TBF we did have opt outs which allowed us to ignore a lot of controversial stuff.