DOOM: NHS

[AtW]

"Sajid Javid calls for patients to pay for GP and A&E visits

Radical reforms needed to tackle waiting times, says former health secretary

Patients should be charged for GP appointments and A&E visits, Sajid Javid has said, as he called the present model of the NHS “unsustainable”.

The former health secretary said “extending the contributory principle” should be part of radical reforms to tackle growing waiting times.

In an opinion piece for the Times, he called for a “grown-up, hard-headed conversation” about revamping the health service, noting that “too often the appreciation for the NHS has become a religious fervour and a barrier to reform”.

The prime minister, Rishi Sunak, is not “currently” considering the proposals, Downing Street told the newspaper.

During his campaign for the Tory leadership, Sunak set out plans to issue £10 fines to patients who miss GP or hospital appointments.

But he backtracked on the pledge after it was widely criticised by health leaders, signalling the controversy surrounding any reforms that could threaten the principle of free NHS care at the point of need.

Javid said the NHS’s only rationing mechanism – to make people wait – should be replaced by means-tested fees, while “protecting those on low incomes”.

“We should look, on a cross-party basis, at extending the contributory principle,” he wrote.

“This conversation will not be easy, but it can help the NHS ration its finite supply more effectively.”

He pointed to Ireland’s “nominal” €75 (£66) fee for attending an injury unit without a referral, and £20 fees charged for GP appointments in Norway and Sweden as possible models."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-and-ae-visits

Sounds fine to me as long as tax refund for full amount is given.

[Snooky]

People will just avoid going to the doctor or A&E and self-medicate/ignore until the issue either goes away or turns into a far more serious condition which will cost the NHS far more to treat, or in extreme cases they just die (which I guess gets rid of the problem without costing the NHS anything).

Sounds like a cracking plan.

[malvolio]

It's going to the doctor that's the problem. The changes to GP ts&cs have effectively blocked that first stage diagnosis for far too many people who use A&E instead. Add to that the lack of aftercare facilities partly from closing cottage hospitals and partly from a chronic shortage of social care and you can see why hospitals are overloaded.

Encourage people who can to go private, spend the money going to non medical roles on after care and get GPs back to their traditional role in sufficient numbers and we might get somewhere.

Won't happen though. Too many weak politicians with a three week attention span

[AtW]

Full tax refund for private medial treatment will do it

[malvolio]

Full tax refund for private medial treatment will do it

Someone introduced it in 1990 for the over 60s. Someone else remove it in 1997. Can't remember who it was, but they blamed its cost vs its take-up. Had they widened it to all over 18s they may have got a different result. Businesses can claim it as a business expense of course, but only for their officers; employees get hit with the BIK charge..

But it's another shibboleth. It is unacceptable to pay for your own health care, probably because it only benefits those who can afford it. The fact it releases funds and capacity for those who can't seems to have been ignored. (It's also how most of the continent does it, you know, those countries like France that don't have a health care crisis.)

[SueEllen]

Blah blah blah Tory love fest...

(It's also how most of the continent does it, you know, those countries like France that don't have a health care crisis.)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64216269.amp

France's health system under pressure of increasing demands

The UK's health system is buckling under the weight of staff shortages and a lack of beds. In France, meanwhile, there are more doctors and many more nurses, yet its healthcare system is still in crisis.
President Emmanuel Macron has promised to change the way its hospitals are funded, and to free doctors from time-consuming administration, in a bid to break what he called a "sense of endless crisis" in its health service.

A series of eye-catching measures over the past few years - such as signing-up bonuses of €50,000 (£44,000) for GPs in under-served areas, and ending a cap on the number of medical students in France - have failed to plug healthcare gaps.

The pressure on both hospitals and GPs has continued to mount with a triple-whammy of winter illnesses, leading medical staff to nickname this month "Black January".

After years of Covid, and with inflation biting, many say chronic staff shortages and increasing demands are making their work impossible and threatening the French health system.

Some hospitals are reporting up to 90% of their staff on "sick leave protest" at the conditions.

And France's second-largest health union has called an "unlimited walkout" this week, following a fortnight of strikes by French GPs.

[malvolio]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64216269.amp

France's health system under pressure of increasing demands

The UK's health system is buckling under the weight of staff shortages and a lack of beds. In France, meanwhile, there are more doctors and many more nurses, yet its healthcare system is still in crisis.
President Emmanuel Macron has promised to change the way its hospitals are funded, and to free doctors from time-consuming administration, in a bid to break what he called a "sense of endless crisis" in its health service.

A series of eye-catching measures over the past few years - such as signing-up bonuses of €50,000 (£44,000) for GPs in under-served areas, and ending a cap on the number of medical students in France - have failed to plug healthcare gaps.

The pressure on both hospitals and GPs has continued to mount with a triple-whammy of winter illnesses, leading medical staff to nickname this month "Black January".

After years of Covid, and with inflation biting, many say chronic staff shortages and increasing demands are making their work impossible and threatening the French health system.

Some hospitals are reporting up to 90% of their staff on "sick leave protest" at the conditions.

And France's second-largest health union has called an "unlimited walkout" this week, following a fortnight of strikes by French GPs.

Blah blah nothing to do with the Tories. However you should recognise that the idiot GP contracts that are one of the root causes, the millions spent on administering meaningless performance figures, the influx of UK residents without sufficient resources to support them and the screwing of private health care provision are all Labour creations. The Tories are at fault for not reversing them.

And France has a current crisis, as does a lot of the rest of the world, for many of the same out-of-their-control reasons that we do, but at least Macron is doing something about it.

Sorry, but reality hurts, doesn't it.

[SueEllen]

Sorry, but reality hurts, doesn't it.

Huh?

Nah the NHS has always been a mess.

The difference in who you are, who you know, where you live and what you need means you get a different level of service to others.

[malvolio]

Huh?

Nah the NHS has always been a mess.

The difference in who you are, who you know, where you live and what you need means you get a different level of service to others.

No you don't. Not even if you work for them.

[Snooky]

those countries like France that don't have a health care crisis

You don't think that has anything to do with the fact that French workers and companies considerably higher levels of taxation than in the UK?