Nuclear war starts on Wednesday

[cannon999]

The one detail I've not really seen is why Ukraine joining Nato, maybe one day, is worth invasion. The Russian position seems to be "war can still be averted" as if they are the ones being aggressed(?) against. "Blackball Ukraine or we invade" seems a peculiar motivation for war. What justification can Nato ever have for doing that, do so and they might as well disband.

If your neighbour tomorrow puts up a cannon (pun intended) pointing at your house, would you consider that aggression? Would you feel uneasy? Would you feel threatened? Did US consider Russian missiles in Cuba in 1962 as an act of aggression? Well we know the answer to that one.

It's quite ironic that people are only waking up now to what has been going on in the world for the last 15 years. This problem did not start when Russia moved its troops to the Ukrainian border. The problem started when NATO started putting missiles close to Russian borders.

[d000hg]

Yeah it's really likely someone would make the first move to start a war with Russia. Nato's massive armed forces would crush a small nation like Russia...

[cannon999]

Yeah it's really likely someone would make the first move to start a war with Russia. Nato's massive armed forces would crush a small nation like Russia...

Right let's rephrase that then. Neighbour pointed a cannon at your house. You however also have a cannon. Do you point one back just in case?

[cannon999]

Yeah it's really likely someone would make the first move to start a war with Russia. Nato's massive armed forces would crush a small nation like Russia...

2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7328276.stm

Nato members were set to endorse US plans for anti-missile defences in Europe, which Russia has opposed.

Nato Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told a news conference that Georgia and Ukraine would become members eventually.

Germany and France had been opposed to putting the two nations on the path to membership, amid concerns voiced by Russia over Nato's eastward expansion.

Even the allies saw at the time what this will lead to. Can you imagine US missile systems next to Moscow? Nope - nobody can.

Now let's see what happens 10 years later

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interm..._Forces_Treaty

The US declared its intention to withdraw from the treaty on 20 October 2018.^[7][9][10] Donald Trump mentioned at a campaign rally that the reason for the pullout was because "they've [Russia has] been violating it for many years".

Now a lot of this boils down he said she said and who you really believe. But I believe 1 thing with crystal clarity. Russia does not have military bases near US. Do you want to check how many NATO bases there are near Russia? Let's compare this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_bases_abroad

with this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...military_bases

I think the answer is clear who the is the real aggressor.

[NotAllThere]

I think the answer is clear who the is the real aggressor.

I think the answer is clear as to who should consider a job at Pravda.

[AtW]

The problem started when NATO started putting missiles close to Russian borders.

"Extending for 57,792 kilometres (35,910 mi), the Russian border is the world's longest."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Russia




As if attacking Ukraine would remove missiles from Poland

[cannon999]

"Extending for 57,792 kilometres (35,910 mi), the Russian border is the world's longest."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Russia




As if attacking Ukraine would remove missiles from Poland

The point of attacking Ukraine is to ensure that there are no missiles placed in Ukraine. Have you looked at the map? At the proximity of Ukraine to Moscow?

[AtW]

The point of attacking Ukraine is to ensure that there are no missiles placed in Ukraine. Have you looked at the map? At the proximity of Ukraine to Moscow?

Finland closer -



Baltic states probably same distance, in any case lots of ships with (future hypersonic) missiles on them that can be within 12 miles within Russian borders

Strategically location of missiles is completely irrelevant to Russia (because it's big enough to place strategic nuclear deterrent far away from borders), it's just an excuse (and not even legal) to take control of neighbouring country that just does not want to bend to the will of "mother" Russia

[cannon999]

Finland closer -



Baltic states probably same distance, in any case lots of ships with (future hypersonic) missiles on them that can be within 12 miles within Russian borders

Strategically location of missiles is completely irrelevant to Russia (because it's big enough to place strategic nuclear deterrent far away from borders), it's just an excuse (and not even legal) to take control of neighbouring country that just does not want to bend to the will of "mother" Russia

Finland is not in NATO and it is considered a neutral state because they have ruled out ever joining NATO. So that's a terrible comparison then?

[AtW]

Finland is not in NATO and it is considered a neutral state because they have ruled out ever joining NATO. So that's a terrible comparison then?

Ukraine is not in NATO and was considered a neutral state until it was attacked by Russia in 2014.

Finland got F-35s already, by virtue of being in EU they are effectively in NATO and in any case they never ruled out joining NATO.

Anyway, Norway is already in NATO - that's 0.1 sec extra flight time for any missiles that may be located there, so your point is just Russian propaganda bulltulip.

Meantime in Sweden - ""Sweden will join NATO within five years, says opposition leader"

https://www.euractiv.com/section/pol...sition-leader/

So basically you are full of tulip and should fook right off to Pravda.su