Tesla the car that thinks its a cyclist!

[vetran]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...top-signs.html

Tesla recalls self-driving software on 54,000 cars after it let them run stop signs: Electric vehicle maker will disable feature with an over-the-internet update early February

• The firm will disable the feature with an over-the-internet software update
• The rolling stop feature allows vehicles to go through junctions with stop signs at up to 5.6mph
• Tesla agreed to the recall after two meetings with officials from the US NHTSA
• Tesla knows of no crashes or injuries caused by the feature
• Recall covers Model S sedans and X SUVs from 2016 to 2022, as well as 2017 to 2022 Model 3 sedans and 2020 to 2022 Model Y SUVs
• A firmware release to disable the rolling stops is expected to be sent out in early February

oh dear

[d000hg]

In trouble for making its AI too similar to human drivers then Not sure how you relate drivers failing to totally stop at a Stop sign to cyclists running red lights, it's a totally different US-specific thing.
People do this all the time in the US and you can be done for it - rolling at 1mph rather than explicitly stopping.

It might even vary between states if you HAVE to stop.

Bit of a non-story really. Have you never driven in the USA?

[ladymuck]

I suppose if the law says you must stop at a stop sign, even if it's only for a second or two, then the AI should be built to adhere to the law, not what is common practise.

Seems a bit daft that they missed that really. Feels like they've opened themselves to potential litigation from drivers who could have gotten a ticket for not stopping because the AI didn't prevent them from breaking the law. We all know the driver is supposed to be responsible but with so much control being taken away from them with the new technology, you can't blame them for assuming that if the car is programmed to allow something then it must be legal.

[d000hg]

I suppose if the law says you must stop at a stop sign, even if it's only for a second or two, then the AI should be built to adhere to the law, not what is common practise.

Seems a bit daft that they missed that really. Feels like they've opened themselves to potential litigation from drivers who could have gotten a ticket for not stopping because the AI didn't prevent them from breaking the law. We all know the driver is supposed to be responsible but with so much control being taken away from them with the new technology, you can't blame them for assuming that if the car is programmed to allow something then it must be legal.

Yeah you do wonder how this ever made it through, unless it's not the law in whichever state they did a lot of testing. However wikipedia suggests this is unlikely:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_sign#North_America Laws and regulations regarding how drivers must comply with a stop sign vary by jurisdiction. In the United States and Canada, these rules are set and enforced at the state or provincial level. At a junction where two or more traffic directions are controlled by stop signs, US and Canada practice generally has the driver who arrives and stops first continue first. If two or three drivers in different directions stop simultaneously at a junction controlled by stop signs, generally the drivers on the left must yield the right-of-way to the driver on the far right.

In all countries, the driver must come to a complete stop before passing a stop sign, even if no other vehicle or pedestrian is visible. If a stop line is marked on the pavement, drivers must stop before crossing the line. Slowing but not completely stopping is called a "rolling stop", sometimes nicknamed after a city or region where it is considered endemic (e.g., "Rhode Island roll" or "California stop"^[34]) – slowing down significantly but not stopping completely at the sign.^[35] This partial stop is not acceptable to most law enforcement officials, and can result in a traffic citation. However, enforcement of this rule varies widely among countries.

[vetran]

In trouble for making its AI too similar to human drivers then Not sure how you relate drivers failing to totally stop at a Stop sign to cyclists running red lights, it's a totally different US-specific thing.
People do this all the time in the US and you can be done for it - rolling at 1mph rather than explicitly stopping.

It might even vary between states if you HAVE to stop.

Bit of a non-story really. Have you never driven in the USA?

Actually Cyclists are required to stop at the few Stop signs used in the UK.

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/stop...%20must%20stop.

they look similar to the ones in the US and Europe



Any junction in the UK with a solid white line requires you to stop, that includes cyclists. Stop signs are used more rarely than in Europe or the US with the UK preferring Give way signs but they do exist in the UK.

Motorists must stop behind the line at a junction where a stop sign is in place with a solid white line. It is law that a driver must stop at least once before the line and wait for a safe gap before proceeding.
DO CYCLISTS HAVE TO STOP AT STOP SIGNS


The Highway Code states to cyclists ‘You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals’. Like motorists, cyclists must also stop at stop signs.

Yes I have driven in the USA multiple times and many parts of Europe many times. Near our French friend's house in Rouen there are lots of stop signs and solid lines its a blooming nightmare crawling through the back alleys.

Its only 3 penalty points and a fine for ignoring them in the UK or a test failure. Are you fit to drive in the UK?

[vetran]

Yeah you do wonder how this ever made it through, unless it's not the law in whichever state they did a lot of testing. However wikipedia suggests this is unlikely:

Try these

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road...ng-orders.html

[vetran]

I suppose if the law says you must stop at a stop sign, even if it's only for a second or two, then the AI should be built to adhere to the law, not what is common practise.

Seems a bit daft that they missed that really. Feels like they've opened themselves to potential litigation from drivers who could have gotten a ticket for not stopping because the AI didn't prevent them from breaking the law. We all know the driver is supposed to be responsible but with so much control being taken away from them with the new technology, you can't blame them for assuming that if the car is programmed to allow something then it must be legal.

with a little bit of luck the law will change to make it joint responsibility. Where a defect in code / design causes a crash / fine Tesla should end up in court taking the blame.

[d000hg]

You go on that TV show "we asked 100 people what do cyclists ignore" and say "stop signs" and see how you do. Stop backpedalling (!)

[northernladuk]

they look similar to the ones in the US and Europe

?

Interesting thing that the same shape stop sign is used in a vast majority of countries.



Interesting thing is it was adopted as that shape because in the old days the signs were painted on iron and the sign would rust or would be obscured by snow/dirt etc so you couldn't read the sign but the shape is universal.

[northernladuk]

How would a tesla in selfdrive handle the new rules about cyclists being in the middle of the lane? Would it attempt to pass them or would it stick behind them for the entire journey?