A case for the death penalty?

[bogeyman]

Two of them have been released without charge.

Oh! and there were we all set to lynch them. Bugger!

[expat]

Yes I know. Who said there was no such thing as Society? And I am not sure I agree. For a society to work there has to be a degree of common interest - you cannot just stick a load of people together and call them a society - there needs to be a certain level of cohesion. IMHO that is what we are lacking in this country at the moment. In a socialist ideal people are forced to care more about their fellows than themselves - in a forward thinking society people will put themselves first but not to the detriment of others.

Thatcher said that. My argument is that there is, necessarily and by definition such a thing as society, you can't decide not to have society, only to have a bad one.

To be fair to Thatcher, her original speech could be read in context as saying that society is made up directly by the actions of individual people, so that what you want society to do becomes really what you want individual people to do.

I rather think that is is usually read as it is, because it is all too believeable that Thatcher meant "society does not exist".

I disagree about whether you can "just stick a load of people together and call them a society", that is missing the point. If you stick a load of people together, you will get something, whether you like what you get or not, and that is what we call society.

[John Galt]

Thatcher said that. My argument is that there is, necessarily and by definition such a thing as society, you can't decide not to have society, only to have a bad one.

To be fair to Thatcher, her original speech could be read in context as saying that society is made up directly by the actions of individual people, so that what you want society to do becomes really what you want individual people to do.

I rather think that is is usually read as it is, because it is all too believeable that Thatcher meant "society does not exist".

I disagree about whether you can "just stick a load of people together and call them a society", that is missing the point. If you stick a load of people together, you will get something, whether you like what you get or not, and that is what we call society.

What she meant was that a 'society' cannot think and a 'society' cannot act - your own definition means that a society is made up of individuals and individuals are free thinking and should have the freedom to make choices for themselves.

[freakydancer]

Oh! and there were we all set to lynch them. Bugger!

Guilty by association. I bet they're horrible little c**ts anyway.

String the f**kers up!!

[SallyAnne]

What she meant was that a 'society' cannot think and a 'society' cannot act

Mob mentality.

Thank you, and good night.

[John Galt]

Mob mentality.

Thank you, and good night.

So what you are saying Sally Ann is that people who act in a 'mob' have no capacity for independent thought and have no choice in their actions?

[bogeyman]

Guilty by association. I bet they're horrible little c**ts anyway.

String the f**kers up!!

But everyone is 'Guilty by association', of everything, ultimately.

Where does one stop?

[SallyAnne]

So what you are saying Sally Ann is that people who act in a 'mob' have no capacity for independent thought and have no choice in their actions?

No.

I'm using mob mentality as an example of how people (who are individuals and who think freely on their own) can also think as a group.

[John Galt]

[QUOTE=SallyAnne]No.

I'm using mob mentality as an example of how people (who are individuals and who think freely on their own) can also think as a group.[/QUOTE

You are missing the point Sally Ann. Socialists talk in terms of Society and its behaviour but a society is made up of free thinking individuals who have a choice in their actions - to change the behaviour of 'society' you need to address the individuals, something that NL fails to do. NL encourage people not to think for themselves and absolve them of responsibility by making their decisions for them through Government legislation

[SallyAnne]

[QUOTE=John Galt]

No.

I'm using mob mentality as an example of how people (who are individuals and who think freely on their own) can also think as a group.[/QUOTE

You are missing the point Sally Ann. Socialists talk in terms of Society and its behaviour but a society is made up of free thinking individuals who have a choice in their actions - to change the behaviour of 'society' you need to address the individuals, something that NL fails to do. NL encourage people not to think for themselves and absolve them of responsibility by making their decisions for them through Government legislation

I dont agree with most of this John, as per usual.

Society is more than just people. Its social conditions, customs, expectations, traditions, laws, identity - I could go on.

Not all people have a choice in their actions. For reasons I explained earlier, I believe people are often products of their environment, products of the cards they (or thier parents) have been dealt, products are their aspirations and abilities, and products of their wealth and status. Not all people have a real choice. And in my opinion, its no choice at all if the alternative is either starvation, poverty, misery, sufferring, etc. I can even understand to some extent when the alternative is boredom.

I dont believe in the flippant comment about people having to help themselves either - I actually believe in our taxes, our healthcare system, our education system...I believe in the rich helping the poor, the educated advising the un-educated, etc.