Every single IT project manager at a bank ever

[cannon999]

Now, you and I know that is rarely the case, don’t we?

Design, development, launch is one phase of the Product life-cycle which can be viewed as a project, after that product development is just another word for BAU.

I am not sure what you mean.

[Whorty]

£600 per day is my dream, not reality.

I started back in 2005.

You're been contracting longer than me, and neither of us has a rate of £600 pd ... but only one of us has this as a dream

[mallisarealperson]

You're been contracting longer than me, and neither of us has a rate of £600 pd ... but only one of us has this as a dream

Past tense mate. Stopped ltd 2019.

[Fraidycat]

IR35 results in personal taxation they would just make you personally bankrupt or garner your personal accounts.

They may bankrupt your ltd company if it doesn't have the money to pay the deemed IR35 payments.

All these court cases are HRMC vs Ltd Company for a reason. It is the company that is being taken to court not the director.

HMRC can only go after the directors for payment if there was negligence or fraud by them. Hard to prove and unlikely in an IR35 case.

This is one of the reason they have switched to making client companies liable, clients will actually have money to pay the debt if HMRC beats the client in court.

[cannon999]

They may bankrupt your ltd company if it doesn't have the money to pay the deemed IR35 payments.

You know all these court cases are HRMC vs Ltd Company for a reason.

But HMRC can only go after the directors for payment if there was negligence or fraud by them. Hard to prove and unlikely in an IR35 case.

This is one of the reason they have switched to making client companies liable, clients will actually have money to pay the debt.

Yes but aren't they coming after the director here? For unpaid income tax? Employer NI is peanuts compared to PAYE tax bill that lands on you as an individual if they count the whole revenue as a salary.

[jamesbrown]

Unless you've been engaged in fraudulent behavior (high bar), they will struggle to pierce the corporate veil and transfer a debt from the company to a director, but it's possible if you had no contract reviews and made no plausible assessment of IR35 risk and it wasn't remotely a borderline case. I don't think we're aware of any examples of that succeeding. That is to say, the IR35 liability is always with YourCo in the first instance, assuming that was your intermediary.

[cannon999]

Unless you've been engaged in fraudulent behavior (high bar), they will struggle to pierce the corporate veil and transfer a debt from the company to a director, but it's possible if you had no contract reviews and made no plausible assessment of IR35 risk and it wasn't remotely a borderline case. I don't think we're aware of any examples of that succeeding. That is to say, the IR35 liability is always with YourCo in the first instance, assuming that was your intermediary.

I am not sure I understand this. What taxes exactly are we talking about here? So let's say IR35 case is lost, which means that the revenue previously treated as revenue is now a salary. That salary has been paid out as dividends. What tax is HMRC claiming back here? Employer NI? Employee PAYE? If the latter then isn't that on the individual?

[jamesbrown]

I am not sure I understand this. What taxes exactly are we talking about here? So let's say IR35 case is lost, which means that the revenue previously treated as revenue is now a salary. That salary has been paid out as dividends. What tax is HMRC claiming back here? Employer NI? Employee PAYE? If the latter then isn't that on the individual?

As a minimum, all taxes that would've been paid, had the money been correctly treated as an IR35 deemed payment. So, yes, PAYE plus both sets of NICs. There may be penalties too.

Yes, it is levied on the individual, but YourCo is responsible (and liable) for applying the PAYE and NICs regulations correctly and YourCo would be pursued under the relevant PAYE and NICs regulations. More here - a bit old now, but still relevant:

https://www.whitefieldtax.co.uk/ir35...-a-individual/

[cannon999]

As a minimum, all taxes that would've been paid, had the money been correctly treated as an IR35 deemed payment. So, yes, PAYE plus both sets of NICs. There may be penalties too.

Yes, it is levied on the individual, but YourCo is responsible (and liable) for applying the PAYE and NICs regulations correctly and YourCo would be pursued under the relevant PAYE and NICs regulations. More here - a bit old now, but still relevant:

https://www.whitefieldtax.co.uk/ir35...-a-individual/

So if I carry out working practices assessments every year and dilligently make sure that I comply with the legislation and lose the case but I have no money in company bank to pay anything out, HMRC gets ?

[cannon999]

As a minimum, all taxes that would've been paid, had the money been correctly treated as an IR35 deemed payment. So, yes, PAYE plus both sets of NICs. There may be penalties too.

Yes, it is levied on the individual, but YourCo is responsible (and liable) for applying the PAYE and NICs regulations correctly and YourCo would be pursued under the relevant PAYE and NICs regulations. More here - a bit old now, but still relevant:

https://www.whitefieldtax.co.uk/ir35...-a-individual/

Doesn't this mean that actually HMRC will use companies house records also to go after individuals with large cash piles in company account? So if you draw your funds down every year - there is nothing to collect.