Get ready to be cold and poor in 2025

**ladymuck** · 18 May 2021, 09:10

What's the lifespan of these things? Stopping the sale of new devices doesn't mean everything in existence before the ban starts is also replaced.

**vetran** · 18 May 2021, 09:13

Hydrogen is seen as an alternative to replace gas. Problem is most of the historic piping is leaky metal not plastic.

Heat exchangers are becoming popular.

Passivehaus levels of sealing are an option.

Each human is an effective heater if you insulate.

**DealorNoDeal** · 18 May 2021, 09:27

Originally posted by d000hg View Post

MF and I are going to stock up...

I wouldn't bother. If they say no new boilers can be sold, then they'll almost certainly prohibit the installation of them as well.

My guess is they might also hike the tax on gas, oil etc, making electricity more competitive (albeit still bloody expensive).

We did look into replacing our oil boiler with a heat pump but it's a huge (expensive) job. Heat pumps don't heat the water to as high a temperature as boilers, so it means either installing underfloor heating or replacing all the radiators with bigger ones.

**minestrone** · 18 May 2021, 09:27

Be like Cuba's cars.

"House for sale, 1998 gas boiler, 3 bedrooms"

**d000hg** · 18 May 2021, 09:28

Originally posted by ladymuck View Post

What's the lifespan of these things? Stopping the sale of new devices doesn't mean everything in existence before the ban starts is also replaced.

Well that depends. Seems anywhere up to 10 years is normal, they can last far longer but modern ones are so complicated...

Don't forget though, most people don't have new boilers. So many will find their boiler conks it in 2027 for instance.

**mattster** · 18 May 2021, 09:44

I did read about an electric drop-in replacement for gas boilers recently (on here?), with the same sort of efficiency levels as gas. Sounds great on paper, until you remember that electricity in this country costs about 4x as much as gas per kWh, which would put our electric bill (4x current gas + electric) at somewhere near 5k a year. I'm keen to improve the insulation on my house, but most of the low hanging fruit has been picked. I live in a 1960's dormer bungalow, and I think the only real way to something close to "eco" levels of insulation now would involve a retrofitted (from the top) warm roof and EWI - about 30 grands worth, probably. Admittedly if we were paying 5k a year on our heating that payback time would become rather less than it is now. I would very much like to be living in a proper passive-haus with decent solar array and battery by retirement age, so energy bills are not an issue (or better idea: somewhere warmer).

**TwoWolves** · 18 May 2021, 09:44

I live in the countryside where almost every heating system is oil-based, if we switched to electric the grid would fail and I don't see anyone upgrading the network in preparation.

The only alternative is a log burner but I don't see how that helps carbon emissions.

**mattster** · 18 May 2021, 09:58

Originally posted by TwoWolves View Post

The only alternative is a log burner but I don't see how that helps carbon emissions.

They're getting banned as well, aren't they?
Grid certainly can't support everyone simply switching to electric without first massively upgrading their insulation, that's for sure. Done right, passive haus spec doesn't require any heating at all - but I don't think that level of insulation is practically retrofittable.

**DealorNoDeal** · 18 May 2021, 10:00

I came across this a few months ago. It gives the kWh cost (4th column in table) of most types of heating, making it easier to do a direct comparison.

Mains gas is the cheapest, followed by oil (kerosene). Ground source heat pump compares favourably but the installation cost is high, especially if replacing an existing gas or oil radiator system.

https://nottenergy.com/resources/energy-cost-comparison

Get ready to be cold and poor in 2025