I had to turn the radio off...

[OwlHoot]

Every UK event in the last 40 years that has resulted in the deaths of more than 10 people, blame has been attributed to the Conservatives. Whether they are in office or not.

Stands to reason dunnit? I mean it's all Fatcher's fault!

[Zigenare]

Stands to reason dunnit? I mean it's all Fatcher's fault!

According Gospel of Ben Elton, yep.

[CryingSheep]

That may be so in principle, but if the firemen had deviated from the "stay put" rule then any survivors and relatives of victims etc could sue for damages.

And thinking that is more important to cover your ass from being sued than doing what feels that could save more lives was probably what went wrong there!

*sorry, one of the things that went wrong there

[vetran]

And thinking that is more important to cover your ass from being sued than doing what feels that could save more lives was probably what went wrong there!

*sorry, one of the things that went wrong there

You have seen what the Government have done to ex Army soldiers in Northern Ireland? If there were any casualties at all the lawyers would have been all over them. They were just following the chain of command.

Agreeing with warty seems wrong but a stopped clock & all that. The official policy used for decades was 'stay put' just as the Army was trained to fix bayonets and walk slowly across no man's land. Do tell me how long it took the generals to figure that one out?

Cause of Grenfell in my opinion, order of prevent-ability I am of course no means an expert but it seems there were lots of opportunities missed here.

1. Failure of the building regulations to clearly ban a material that had been shown to change the nature of high rise fires for the worse and that was banned in other countries.

2. The government removing the fire brigade's responsibility for granting fire safety certs.

3. A white goods manufacturer cutting costs and releasing dangerous goods subject to recall. Though there are multiple possible ignition causes this one is just a peach.

4. The fire safety precautions that weren't implemented or were bypassed by the quango owners.

5. Failure to mandate fitting sprinklers, fire door monitors & smoke extractors in high rise communal ares. This would probably permit safe evacuation later in the fire and change the official guidance.

200. Failure of owners / builders to identify the material as unsuitable.
201. Failure of the Fire service experts to notice that the dangerous cladding had changed the behaviour of a number of tower fires which would mean a change in official tactics.

300000. The chiefs on the night realising in the heat of the fire that the fire was behaving differently so they should challenge the official policy.
300001 failure of the tenant to notice someone had sold him a dangerous appliance
.
999999999999999999999999999 any of the fire fighters saving the day Bruce Willis stylee. Shall we call it the shagged sheep option?

[CryingSheep]

You have seen what the Government have done to ex Army soldiers in Northern Ireland? If there were any casualties at all the lawyers would have been all over them. They were just following the chain of command.

Agreeing with warty seems wrong but a stopped clock & all that. The official policy used for decades was 'stay put' just as the Army was trained to fix bayonets and walk slowly across no man's land. Do tell me how long it took the generals to figure that one out?

Cause of Grenfell in my opinion, order of prevent-ability I am of course no means an expert but it seems there were lots of opportunities missed here.

1. Failure of the building regulations to clearly ban a material that had been shown to change the nature of high rise fires for the worse and that was banned in other countries.

2. The government removing the fire brigade's responsibility for granting fire safety certs.

3. A white goods manufacturer cutting costs and releasing dangerous goods subject to recall. Though there are multiple possible ignition causes this one is just a peach.

4. The fire safety precautions that weren't implemented or were bypassed by the quango owners.

5. Failure to mandate fitting sprinklers, fire door monitors & smoke extractors in high rise communal ares. This would probably permit safe evacuation later in the fire and change the official guidance.

200. Failure of owners / builders to identify the material as unsuitable.
201. Failure of the Fire service experts to notice that the dangerous cladding had changed the behaviour of a number of tower fires which would mean a change in official tactics.

300000. The chiefs on the night realising in the heat of the fire that the fire was behaving differently so they should challenge the official policy.
300001 failure of the tenant to notice someone had sold him a dangerous appliance
.
999999999999999999999999999 any of the fire fighters saving the day Bruce Willis stylee. Shall we call it the shagged sheep option?

Thankfully people in position to make decisions don't agree with you!!!

Looking at the images (even just minutes from the ignition) of the tower burning you don't need to be an expert to understand that something was seriously wrong and the fire (or isolation) wasn't behaving as it should...

[vetran]

Thankfully people in position to make decisions don't agree with you!!!

Looking at the images (even just minutes from the ignition) of the tower burning you don't need to be an expert to understand that something was seriously wrong and the fire (or isolation) wasn't behaving as it should...

You know in a disaster one tends to follow the procedures & plan to avoid making bigger mistakes.This applies in the military, emergency services & even in IT.

The key point I was making was the plan was wrong and no one changed it despite a series of incidents that should have revised it.


Grenfell Tower fire - Wikipedia


Cladding in London high-rise fire also blamed for 2014 Melbourne blaze | UK news | The Guardian

You seem to think the fire fighters should have gone all yipee ki yay and think that is a valid response.
Blimey even warty is brighter than that. Even with the benefit of hindsight you are talking out of your arse!

it has now become a scapegoat hunt and nothing will be done about the core problem.

[JohntheBike]

I think it's disgusting that the report was leaked to the press a day or two before it's official release. Gives no opportunity for the people actually affected by the fire to read and respond. Instead all manner of people were being asked to comment on something that they'd heard of third hand.

establishment protecting its own again

[JohntheBike]

Every UK event in the last 40 years that has resulted in the deaths of more than 10 people, blame has been attributed to the Conservatives. Whether they are in office or not.

A labour government was in power at the time of the Aberfan disaster and despite a damning report from the enquiry, no one was charged with any offence. Robens even ended his days as the head of some health and safety organisation. To rub salt in the wound, the Labour government charged the disaster fund for removing the remaining tips, which were still predominant in the skyline for years after the disaster. Then when Tony Bliar's government announced that they would repay the actual amount taken from the disaster fund, less interest by the way, and not the adjusted value, he was praised for doing so. When will we all understand that the establishment protects its own in all these issues, just as it has done for Grenfell. This situation will not change even if good fortune deserted us and Korbyn ever did reach no. 10

[DoctorStrangelove]

I often turn off the wireless set when some know nothing BBfeckigC mother****er is talking over the top of someone's reply to a question when the answer doesn't fit the BBfeckingC's particular take on something.

I had hoped that PM would improve when the comedian Eddie Mair fecked off, but the replacement twat is even worse.

[NigelJK]

Say what you want about Eddie, but the funniest moment on PM was him interviewing the Circus clown taking his employer to a tribunal as he was made redundant when he switched to being a human cannonball