Shocked, Shocked I tell you

[mudskipper]

The daily Mail is indeed controversial, it is intentionally its the "Naked Attraction" & "Jeremy Kyle" of the papers.

I don't believe behaviour is decided solely by Genetics. I do believe Behaviour is decided by multiple factors. I do believe it is a minority of our new friends.

1. If I were a wanted man in my country I would try to move to a different country.
2. If I have already broken the law seriously in my original country I am unlikely to behave myself in my new country.
3. Therefore I am pulled towards a new country and pushed from my own, If I can find a country where I am paid a rock star salary (in my terms) for clearing tables which is unlikely to check my criminal record at home (6% checking in Manchester) I'm going there.
4. Idiots who permit this are normally Guardian readers or remoaners!
5. People who are saddened by this are called Vetran.

So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? We get some, we lose some. The problem is with assuming that immigration is the problem. There are problems with immigration, but to blame immigrants for crime is not backed up by stats. There probably are certain demographics of immigrants that are more likely to commit crime, just as there are more likely demographics of 'Brits' that commit crime. Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals.

[vetran]

So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? We get some, we lose some. The problem is with assuming that immigration is the problem. There are problems with immigration, but to blame immigrants for crime is not backed up by stats. There probably are certain demographics of immigrants that are more likely to commit crime, just as there are more likely demographics of 'Brits' that commit crime. Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals.

1. So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? -no this is why I used myself as an example. Its a logical solution to an issue I would have.

2. There are problems with immigration - yes and its the government's job to fix it. I don't believe immigration is bad, I do believe it needs managing. Every time someone suggests this then they are accused of being racist. That needs to change.

3. but to blame immigrants for crime - no most are great, as I said I found the stats surprising,most people I know who worked abroad, they were the most law abiding people anywhere. Therefore there must be pockets of trouble we need to fix.

4.Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals. - 80% of crime is committed by UK born. Many years ago some friends lived on a council estate, poor as church mice, almost every week their telly (bought from CEX and the cheapest they had) was stolen to pay for a drug fix. Most crime is one of opportunity.

[mudskipper]

1. So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? -no this is why I used myself as an example. Its a logical solution to an issue I would have.

2. There are problems with immigration - yes and its the government's job to fix it. I don't believe immigration is bad, I do believe it needs managing. Every time someone suggests this then they are accused of being racist. That needs to change.

3. but to blame immigrants for crime - no most are great, as I said I found the stats surprising,most people I know who worked abroad, they were the most law abiding people anywhere. Therefore there must be pockets of trouble we need to fix.

4.Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals. - 80% of crime is committed by UK born. Many years ago some friends lived on a council estate, poor as church mice, almost every week their telly (bought from CEX and the cheapest they had) was stolen to pay for a drug fix. Most crime is one of opportunity.

So it sounds like we're largely agreed that immigration isn't 'bad' and that the DM (in particular) chooses to highlight the negatives rather than the positives?

Drugs is a different issue, and one that I unfortunately have more familiarity with than I'd like - but it is not restricted to 'council estates'. I think drug dependency and associated crime is largely 'local' so difficult to see the relevance in this discussion. I don't believe addicts in their hundreds/thousands are flocking to the UK for an easy fix.

[vetran]

So it sounds like we're largely agreed that immigration isn't 'bad' and that the DM (in particular) chooses to highlight the negatives rather than the positives?

Drugs is a different issue, and one that I unfortunately have more familiarity with than I'd like - but it is not restricted to 'council estates'. I think drug dependency and associated crime is largely 'local' so difficult to see the relevance in this discussion. I don't believe addicts in their hundreds/thousands are flocking to the UK for an easy fix.

The point I was making was that it was crime of opportunity. People see a target, feel they can get away with it and they do. i.e. most crime is local because the criminals are frequently too lazy or occupied with their issues to commute. My friends had no money they were a poor target but they were convenient as their burglars lived upstairs or across the road.

The point in the article is that the high end criminals are commuting cross continent and we are failing to police it. Combine that with us not checking new arrivals criminal history in their home country means more people who want to hurt us are getting through. I think that is just basic governance protecting the people.

[NotAllThere]

...
4. Idiots who permit this are normally Guardian readers or remoaners!...

I think you'll find they're called "The British Government".

[darmstadt]

It does reflect the headline. You need to read the article to understand it. If you can only manage the short words then ask for help.

No it doesn't.

[BlasterBates]

The point I was making was that it was crime of opportunity. People see a target, feel they can get away with it and they do. i.e. most crime is local because the criminals are frequently too lazy or occupied with their issues to commute. My friends had no money they were a poor target but they were convenient as their burglars lived upstairs or across the road.

The point in the article is that the high end criminals are commuting cross continent and we are failing to police it. Combine that with us not checking new arrivals criminal history in their home country means more people who want to hurt us are getting through. I think that is just basic governance protecting the people.

Cutting off co-operation with Europol will enhance the ability of the police to stop these criminals hopping across borders ?

[Yorkie62]

Cutting off co-operation with Europol will enhance the ability of the police to stop these criminals hopping across borders ?

With no free movement of people, they will not be able to cross borders so easily.

[BlasterBates]

With no free movement of people, they will not be able to cross borders so easily.

between 30 and 40 million people visit the UK each year from all over the world, that aint going to change. With no information from Europol how will they know to distinguish genuine visitors from criminals crossing borders. At least they can do that now.