Give the man a medal, don't arrest him...

[northernladyuk]

I suspect he is a home grown scumbag. There are a lot about.

Problem is that when you point out we are importing them in quantity then some feckwitt accuses you of racism.

When you use dehumanising language like 'importing them in quantity', you sound like a nasty piece of work.

[WTFH]

When you use dehumanising language like 'importing them in quantity', you sound like a nasty piece of work.

He's frustrated that the criminals aren't foreign.

[original PM]

For those interested in understanding the law about such matters, as opposed to what some bloke said down the pub, here's a barrister on the subject: Bashing burglars and the law of self-defence

So from this

'The first question that a jury must ask is Did the defendant believe or may he have believed that it was necessary to use force to defend himself an attack or imminent attack on himself or others or to protect property or prevent crime?'

Ok so lets say I have two teenage daughters at home and chavy scrote A breaks into my house.

I have no idea as to the intentions of chavy scrote A but as he is in my house uninvited I have to assume he intends to do me and my family harm.

The only way I can guarantee that he cannot do my family harm at this point - or another future point - is to incapacitate him in a way which makes it impossible for him to ever be able to threaten me or my family again.

And so you have to say that in 'every' case almost lethal force must be used because if it is not then you leave yourself open to a future problem - e.g. that person will retaliate - even if it is not at that point it could be in 1 year, 5 years, 10 year s etc.

[northernladyuk]

So from this

'The first question that a jury must ask is Did the defendant believe or may he have believed that it was necessary to use force to defend himself an attack or imminent attack on himself or others or to protect property or prevent crime?'

Ok so lets say I have two teenage daughters at home and chavy scrote A breaks into my house.

I have no idea as to the intentions of chavy scrote A but as he is in my house uninvited I have to assume he intends to do me and my family harm.

You have no idea that the intruder is a threat to your property or that he is committing a crime? It doesn't seem to be a necessary condition to believe that the intruder intends violence.

[original PM]

You have no idea that the intruder is a threat to your property or that he is committing a crime? It doesn't seem to be a necessary condition to believe that the intruder intends violence.

I have to assume if someone comes into my house uninvited they do not intend to hoover my carpets and sweep the kitchen floor.

I have to assume they want to take things which are mine.

I also have to assume they will use violence to do this.

I have to assume all these things because an honest law abiding citizen would not be in my house uninvited and so that leaves the section of the society which are not law abiding and therefore potentially prone to violence.

[malvolio]

You have no idea that the intruder is a threat to your property or that he is committing a crime? It doesn't seem to be a necessary condition to believe that the intruder intends violence.

He's a threat simply by being there uninvited. It's up to him to demonstrate any good intentions. Waving a screwdriver in my face probably doesn't qualify as such, but nor does his sudden appearance in my bedroom.

I live in a fairly safe area, but there is still a bokken under the bed and I know how to use it.

[northernladyuk]

I have to assume if someone comes into my house uninvited they do not intend to hoover my carpets and sweep the kitchen floor.

I have to assume they want to take things which are mine.

I also have to assume they will use violence to do this.

I have to assume all these things because an honest law abiding citizen would not be in my house uninvited and so that leaves the section of the society which are not law abiding and therefore potentially prone to violence.

Sure, but you don't even need to assume they're going to use violence. The fact that they're going to take things which are yours is sufficient.

[northernladyuk]

He's a threat simply by being there uninvited. It's up to him to demonstrate any good intentions. Waving a screwdriver in my face probably doesn't qualify as such, but nor does his sudden appearance in my bedroom.

I live in a fairly safe area, but there is still a bokken under the bed and I know how to use it.

This a really weird conversation. Our resident right-wingers seem keen to imagine that the law prevents them from defending their property (presumably because the state is on the side of criminals and not law abiding citizens?), but as Nick Fitz shows, that is simply not the case. Sometimes, you need to take Yes for an answer, folks.

Years of tabloid nonsense really have taken their toll on the country.

[vetran]

When you use dehumanising language like 'importing them in quantity', you sound like a nasty piece of work.

So disprove the statement not smear the person. We are not filtering them as they arrive or detaining them once we realise they wish to cause us harm or are unsuitable to stay in the UK. The tube bomber couldn't have waved many more flags without going on television & shouting death to the invaders. This scumbag also seems to like it here.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...o-Romania.html

If you review the various most wanted lists about there are a large number of serious criminals that appear to be from elsewhere. There are plenty of examples in the papers of people convicted (in their own countries of serious crimes) arriving here and offending again.

National Crime Agency - Most Wanted Listings

https://crimestoppers-uk.org/most-wanted/

There are statistics

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/67...ts-are-foreign

The Home Office said that 29,000 overseas offenders had been removed from Britain since 2010.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8240751.html

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “We have removed more than 41,000 foreign offenders since 2010. In 2016-17 we removed 6,346 foreign offenders, the highest number of removals ever and this week, like every week, more than 100 foreign criminals will be removed from the UK.

These aren't deported for not paying their TV licence.

Foreign nationals make up 10% of the prison population (has been up to 14%) . Interestingly they are 51% european so are the same "race" as me, I can assure I don't like rapists & murderers of any ethnicity.

UK Prison Population Statistics - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

I suspect the figures would be higher but they tend to release them early so they can deport them easily or immediately deport them for lesser crimes.

If we excluded those that had offended before they arrived here I would expect the foreign national percentage to be far lower than our own local criminals as most are life long offenders.

Now I am prepared to believe that being a first / second generation immigrant is hard and a few may lose their way but we are allowing some in knowing or not checking whether they have committed horrible crimes and logically will commit similar again. I don't approve of this and if they were all coming from Jersey & named John Smith looking like JRM (softy) I would still disapprove.

Do please indicate which race I offended when I mentioned this? I did suggest those we import (you may find the word odd but Mandelson "sent out search parties") may include criminals and as we know we don't control their entry and in many cases we can't because of an organisation we can only discuss in a sub forum.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism

I don't believe my 'race' is superior as I said we have our own home grown scumbags.

As we all come from Eve (via Africa if you don't believe in God) I only truly believe there is one 'race' , but certain traits are used to differentiate by many people and then there is unpleasantness.

The Romanian above is probably close enough to my 'race' that it doesn't matter, however he is still unpleasant and we have one more scumbag here we wouldn't have if we controlled our borders properly,

If people find these facts difficult to understand then I'm sorry just decry me as a racist if that makes you feel better.

[northernladyuk]

So disprove the statement not smear the person.

I am objecting to your dehumanising language, not looking to 'disprove a statement', so why don't you engage with that, rather than going down some strawman tangent. The UK does not 'import them in quantity'. People choose to migrate to the UK, usually within legal frameworks established into law by the democratically elected British parliament. You may not like that - fair enough. But there really is no need to use language that reduces immigrants to some kind of commodity, although I do accept that dehumanising groups of people is a useful psychological tool for those with unpleasant views. I am sure you can think of many historical precedents.