chancellor-will-create-crisis-self-employed

[LondonManc]

I don't buy it that private sector companies are going to be more willing to offer outside roles. There are plenty of risk averse companies out there who will want to take the safest option. And if out inside rates become too expensive, there's always Wipro and the like.

Smaller companies with fewer contractors will be more likely to offer outside roles imho. Why? Because they can say that they're bringing a specialist in with skills that they don't have. They'll also be keener on costs and wanting to get value for money. A £450/day outside contractor will be better, in theory, than a £450/day inside guy.

That said, large companies may do it on a day rate limit - anyone over, say, £500/day is a specialist and should be deemed outside. Thoughts?

[SueEllen]

There's also the potential now, given the exodus, that PS departments will start pushing roles outside IR35 to attract staff back.

Some are already.

Though it depends on the background of the people who are in charge.

[SueEllen]

Smaller companies with fewer contractors will be more likely to offer outside roles imho. Why? Because they can say that they're bringing a specialist in with skills that they don't have. They'll also be keener on costs and wanting to get value for money. A £450/day outside contractor will be better, in theory, than a £450/day inside guy.

That said, large companies may do it on a day rate limit - anyone over, say, £500/day is a specialist and should be deemed outside. Thoughts?

Everything depends on the background of the managers in charge.

There are some who are more legally aware than others.

[mattfx]

Everything depends on the background of the managers in charge.

There are some who are more legally aware than others.

There are also those who are more respectful of the Contractor / Hiring Manager relationship and its very large differences between that of employer / employee. I think some hiring managers assume that having an outside contractor on-site is just another body added to their head count.

[bobspud]

Just so you know that while telling the world that there will be no room to up rates, someone wandered past me the other week and offered me 750 for an HMRC role.

I turned it down for two reasons.

1) Im not working in Southend -EVER-
2) Im not prepared to take work that is project based and has no mutuality of obligation while being taxed as an employee when it contravenes the law as it stands.

[BoredBloke]

Some are already.

Though it depends on the background of the people who are in charge.

The public sector has to compete with the private sector for talent. If they are facing the situation where they can't recruit a particular skill set on an inside basis, because the contractors have fled to the private sector outside IR35 contracts, then perhaps the only way they can currently fill the role is to advertise it as outside also. If the private sector suddenly starts offering the role as inside, then the private sector will be able to follow suit.

[Swamp Thing]

There are also those who are more respectful of the Contractor / Hiring Manager relationship and its very large differences between that of employer / employee. I think some hiring managers assume that having an outside contractor on-site is just another body added to their head count.

A lot also depends on recruitment agencies, their knowledge of the issue and their appetite to unify behind a counter-solution. I've spoken with a number of agencies in the last week or two. I'm afraid their knowledge of this issue is shockingly ignorant or complacent. No contingency thinking, no awareness of what the REC and IPSE have so far said. Most think the brollies will come to the rescue somehow

I think the agencies will throw us under the bus. At the end of the day for them, a fee is a fee, whether it's an inside or outside decision.

[SueEllen]

The public sector has to compete with the private sector for talent. If they are facing the situation where they can't recruit a particular skill set on an inside basis, because the contractors have fled to the private sector outside IR35 contracts, then perhaps the only way they can currently fill the role is to advertise it as outside also. If the private sector suddenly starts offering the role as inside, then the private sector will be able to follow suit.

You are making the mistake of presuming roles are exactly equivalent. In the public sector you get to deal with tulip politics.

[LondonManc]

Just so you know that while telling the world that there will be no room to up rates, someone wandered past me the other week and offered me 750 for an HMRC role.

I turned it down for two reasons.

1) Im not working in Southend -EVER-
2) Im not prepared to take work that is project based and has no mutuality of obligation while being taxed as an employee when it contravenes the law as it stands.

Lack of apostrophe aside, this is where it gets interesting.

Being inside IR35 suggests/infers/implies MoO; if you get a 12 month contract, has it become the equivalent of a footballer's contract, where you're paid up in full if they want you off site early?

[washed up contractor]

The market is now awash with idiots that think 500 a day is the going rate to be a senior contributor to xyzzy project and that needs to stop.

Fact is most of you have fallen for rates far bellow what most clients will pay and at worst have been feeding agents that are making 20 - 40% off your nativity

Someone contradicts himself here so clearly doesnt know his arse from his elbow.