November Budget - Stop Public sector IR35 rules coming into the Private sector

[mattfx]

All great fun, but totally wrong.

We should be emphasising that we are suppliers of knowledge and skills, operating in the exact same way as any other business and engaged on a B2B basis, making all this tulip about "we're not employees" totally unnecessary. Even Andy Hallett agreed with me on that point.

Sadly it's the agencies that have got us into this position by selling us as temporary workers under their control. That is what needs to be broken.

But let's be honest; it's not the same as a professional services company / reseller is it? We haven't had to cold call prospects, or advertise, keep up accreditation with vendors. We have had to submit a list of skills to an agent who happens to have work. It's a unique market and you're right; because of the similarities of use finding gigs to permies finding jobs we are viewed in the same way.

Whilst we may also be delivering in a B2B manner, as many people have observed the hiring manager / PM at clientco is hiring you, not your business to deliver. Even if there is a substitution clause in your contract.

To sell that argument of being a "true" B2B business, you'd need someone who has only ever gone direct. I suspect those people are very few and far between.

[mattfx]

Just because you are doing comparatively well in life you shouldn't assume everyone who isn't is "too lazy"

I've had to work extremely hard to get to where I got to; I had absolutely zero formal qualifications, and never went to school due to some suspect and slightly hippy choices from my parents. I was determined I wanted to be successful and slogged my balls off to blag a place in a college, get my first job and climb the ladder. Since then its taken more hard work and debt at times to get to where I got to today. I could've just as easily stuck it in a very average job at my first company and had a job for life there, but I didn't want to be average.

Did I have a loving and supporting home? Yes. Was it in a rough area? No. Did I have therefore have more access to resources than some? Probably. However, I see so many people electing to waste time and energy on video games or other things that simply don't matter, and then moan immediately after about how their life is turning out.

I'm not saying everyone is too lazy, but a good 70% probably are.

[pr1]

I've had to work extremely hard to get to where I got to; I had absolutely zero formal qualifications, and never went to school due to some suspect and slightly hippy choices from my parents. I was determined I wanted to be successful and slogged my balls off to blag a place in a college, get my first job and climb the ladder. Since then its taken more hard work and debt at times to get to where I got to today. I could've just as easily stuck it in a very average job at my first company and had a job for life there, but I didn't want to be average.

Did I have a loving and supporting home? Yes. Was it in a rough area? No. Did I have therefore have more access to resources than some? Probably. However, I see so many people electing to waste time and energy on video games or other things that simply don't matter, and then moan immediately after about how their life is turning out.

I'm not saying everyone is too lazy, but a good 70% probably are.

If everyone did what you did, who would drive your uber or serve your coffee in the morning?

[MrMarkyMark]

But let's be honest; it's not the same as a professional services company / reseller is it? We haven't had to cold call prospects, or advertise, keep up accreditation with vendors. We have had to submit a list of skills to an agent who happens to have work. It's a unique market and you're right; because of the similarities of use finding gigs to permies finding jobs we are viewed in the same way.

Whilst we may also be delivering in a B2B manner, as many people have observed the hiring manager / PM at clientco is hiring you, not your business to deliver. Even if there is a substitution clause in your contract.

To sell that argument of being a "true" B2B business, you'd need someone who has only ever gone direct. I suspect those people are very few and far between.

I haven't used an agency or job site to find work for me for over 6 years now.

Even prior to then, in the early days, I had three direct contracts.
In fact one of those was a big transformation that lasted for around 3 years.

Probably in at least 3 of those occasions I could have subbed someone in fairly easily.
I had previously recommended people for contracts who the client liked on all three of those occasions.
In fact most of those then ended up going direct for those clients.

I did try and band together into a consultancy, made a few quid at it, but decided it was too much trouble at that particular time.
In addition I had 4 roles thieved by an in house recruiter who told a few porkies to my Client Co contact, saying she had to go through them.

That having all being said, I am thinking of starting a managed service at some point, just awaiting the right time.

[mattfx]

If everyone did what you did, who would drive your uber or serve your coffee in the morning?

I am assuming you have indeed written to your MP then, pr1?

[NigelJK]

When I started contracting (around '87) you were a 'Freelancer' (a Contractor was a builder) and you used specialise 'consultancies' to locate your next gig, if you weren't head hunted. The consultancies were usually geared for TV/Radio/Journalists, and the accountants were usually specialised also. The market is now awash with some very 'average' candidates, using mainly checkbox ticking agencies. The driving force is the clients who now want more freedom to hire and fire as the need arises (side stepping employment law in the process). The root of the issue is that HMRC (and he Gvmnt in general) who do not understand the new flexible work force chasing this new need.

[AtW]

The driving force is the clients who now want more freedom to hire and fire as the need arises (side stepping employment law in the process). The root of the issue is that HMRC (and he Gvmnt in general) who do not understand the new flexible work force chasing this new need.

The root of the problem is dire situation with budget deficit and they want to find soft targets for tax increases.

[OwlHoot]

The root of the problem is dire situation with budget deficit and they want to find soft targets for tax increases.

Exactly, they just want the money.

And this just shows what a worthless crock of tulip these so-called annual growth figures are, based on GDP.

If there was genuine growth year by year, then taxes would stay more or less constant and become an ever lower percentage of incomes, instead of the opposite.

[vwdan]

But let's be honest; it's not the same as a professional services company / reseller is it? We haven't had to cold call prospects, or advertise, keep up accreditation with vendors.

Uhm, speak for yourself. I do exactly those things - full, certified partner status with my primary technology and I cold call contacts all the time. No, I don't phone random businesses - and neither do most consultancies.

[OwlHoot]

Uhm, speak for yourself. I do exactly those things - full, certified partner status with my primary technology and I cold call contacts all the time. No, I don't phone random businesses - and neither do most consultancies.

And even if we don't always cold-call prospects ourselves, we rely, far more often than a permanent employee typically must, on someone (agents) to do this, and have to pay them handsomely!