November Budget - Stop Public sector IR35 rules coming into the Private sector

[AtW]

They will do it because option of contracting in EU will be cut short at 11pm on Friday 29 March 2019, there won't be anywhere to go easily anymore after that.

[eek]

I don't share your optimism. Wasn't the move to using limited companies in the 70's caused by agencies possibly getting hit with the tax liabilities for the self employed? Why would any business open itself up to the risk of being hit with the tax and NI back taxes for all their contractors when they can simply say that thy will only recruit on a FTC or inside IR35 basis? They don't care what our tax levels are. As more and more clients offer only inside roles, the problem of recruiting will lessen as we'll all have to work somewhere at some point.

It was the exact opposite agencies were requiring people to be self employed to avoid responsibility for tax

[BoredBloke]

I think Bobspud's comment was illustrative.

I think the larger firms in a number of verticals (e.g. fintech, pharma) would go down the option b) route. Not for being altruistic towards contractors of course. But in the rush pre-Brexit to retain quality flexible resources, they'll put more effort into demonstrating that the work on the ground delivered by contractors sits outside IR35. So, proper MOO, no SDC, project=based deliverables in contracts etc.

There's not too much extra work in making this happen - it's what should happen now. Contracts and working practices just need tightening up. And as for the risk of getting an outside decision wrong, I think the larger private sector firms will have more appetite to take this on than the public bodies have done.

I don't share your optimism. Wasn't the move to using limited companies in the 70's caused by agencies possibly getting hit with the tax liabilities for the self employed? Why would any business open itself up to the risk of being hit with the tax and NI back taxes for all their contractors when they can simply say that thy will only recruit on a FTC or inside IR35 basis? They don't care what our tax levels are. As more and more clients offer only inside roles, the problem of recruiting will lessen as we'll all have to work somewhere at some point.

[Swamp Thing]

Not everyone works for just banks.

I think Bobspud's comment was illustrative.

I think the larger firms in a number of verticals (e.g. fintech, pharma) would go down the option b) route. Not for being altruistic towards contractors of course. But in the rush pre-Brexit to retain quality flexible resources, they'll put more effort into demonstrating that the work on the ground delivered by contractors sits outside IR35. So, proper MOO, no SDC, project=based deliverables in contracts etc.

There's not too much extra work in making this happen - it's what should happen now. Contracts and working practices just need tightening up. And as for the risk of getting an outside decision wrong, I think the larger private sector firms will have more appetite to take this on than the public bodies have done.

[poorautojobber]

And back in 2001 Hammond was quoted in Hansard criticising IR35 for its negative effects on the flexible and smallest businesses in the uk. What changed Phil? Oh that's be it - you got into power so you no longer need our votes.

Thing is they probably will need our votes soon. I modified the IPSe letter and added that point at the bottom. I think as an estimate just my local village would have 100+ engineering contractors. Would imagine with all the IT guys and other contractors it would be a bit of a hit for my local MP.

[malvolio]

Just an FYI Vince Cable was in parliament yesterday fighting the cause specifically mentioned IR35. Sounds like someone's been lobbying for us. Bit of a scroll but he's the least respected

Tax Avoidance and Evasion - Hansard Online

FTFY...

He was the Business Secretary who fought hard to allow FTEs in to take over our jobs, remember. Ignore almost anything he says, he'll reverse it within days if he sniffs someone listening to him.

[SueEllen]

***** it....

Let it happen. For many years I have held the opinion that there are a lot of boys and girls that are lying to themselves about what contracting is. They are the ones that are in grave danger of losing everything in an HMRC investigation. So in their cases for someone else to take over the risk and tell them the truth is a good thing to happen even if they feel the pain in the short term.

The second point is no one should look at the catastrophic mess that they caused in the public sector and think it will work that way in the private sector. If a bank is given the choice of :

a) Pushing everyone inside IR35 and lose talent in a stampede or
b) Arrange their affairs correctly and use temps, permanent staff and contractors in the right way

they will pick b)

More importantly I don't think we have seen the true effects of the last two years of dividend taxes and IR35. I think there will be a number of lower paid people that will be very surprised about their 2018 tax bill come January.

Having a load of nurses go bankrupt because they owe 35% tax for the last tax year while being forced inside IR35 this year will make things really hard for Hammond.

Not everyone works for just banks.

[SueEllen]

it would be a drop in the ocean in terms of increase in their share of the vote

In some of the constituencies they lost it would have made a difference between keeping them and the loss.

[bobspud]

***** it....

Let it happen. For many years I have held the opinion that there are a lot of boys and girls that are lying to themselves about what contracting is. They are the ones that are in grave danger of losing everything in an HMRC investigation. So in their cases for someone else to take over the risk and tell them the truth is a good thing to happen even if they feel the pain in the short term.

The second point is no one should look at the catastrophic mess that they caused in the public sector and think it will work that way in the private sector. If a bank is given the choice of :

a) Pushing everyone inside IR35 and lose talent in a stampede or
b) Arrange their affairs correctly and use temps, permanent staff and contractors in the right way

they will pick b)

More importantly I don't think we have seen the true effects of the last two years of dividend taxes and IR35. I think there will be a number of lower paid people that will be very surprised about their 2018 tax bill come January.

Having a load of nurses go bankrupt because they owe 35% tax for the last tax year while being forced inside IR35 this year will make things really hard for Hammond.

[BoredBloke]

Just an FYI Vince Cable was in parliament yesterday fighting the cause specifically mentioned IR35. Sounds like someone's been lobbying for us. Bit of a scroll but he's at least respected

Tax Avoidance and Evasion - Hansard Online

And back in 2001 Hammond was quoted in Hansard criticising IR35 for its negative effects on the flexible and smallest businesses in the uk. What changed Phil? Oh that's be it - you got into power so you no longer need our votes.