Catalonia

[NotAllThere]

Here's an example of how secession was handled democratically.

[northernladyuk]

All Spain has to do is freeze their bank accounts and then they're f***ed.

More likely to be successful than military intervention. Tricky going with the main arterial road and rail routes from Spain to France running straight through Catalonia.

[northernladyuk]

Here's an example of how secession was handled democratically.

The Catalan government and parliament have tried to handle things democratically, but the Spanish constitution frustrates democratic self-determination of peoples.

[BlasterBates]

Here's an example of how secession was handled democratically.

They had no choice the T-Rex's were on the rampage.

[Bean]

A win is a win, if free and fair. But there's been no opportunity to hold such a vote. The logical flow that is being taken is:

• Self determination for a people is a right
• It should be realised through a free and fair plebiscite
• The Spanish constitution forbids this and the Spanish government and state frustrate it
• A free and fair plebiscite will be held in spite of the Spanish constitution
• A free and fair plebiscite held in spite of the Spanish constitution has been disrupted by the violence of Spanish paramilitary police
• The outcome of that disrupted plebiscite is the best possible reflection of the will of the Catalan people, given the circumstances
• The Catalan parliament will hold a vote to decide on independence, in spite of the Spanish constitution (which frustrates self determination, see above)
• The Spanish supreme court has suspended the Catalan parliament
• The Catalan parliament treats the will of the Catalan people as a higher authority and will meet anyway
• The Catalan parliament declares independence

And then they see how it plays out. The great tragedy (or one of them) is that a free and fair referendum probably would have failed. It may not be too late for the Spanish government to organise an advisory plebiscite to determine the will of the Catalan people. But I doubt they have the mindset for that. They'll continue to screw it up.

Well I agree with the list/flow - the only thing missing - is the formal removal of autonomy from the region by the Spanish gov (as allowed for in the constitution), when a region unilaterally declares indy.

How the Catalans react to THAT, will be very interesting and that's when the talks will have to step up - as I envisage the region that contributes ~20% of GDP, will be v quick to strike to make themselves heard

[northernladyuk]

Well I agree with the list/flow - the only thing missing - is the formal removal of autonomy from the region by the Spanish gov (as allowed for in the constitution), when a region unilaterally declares indy.

How the Catalans react to THAT, will be very interesting and that's when the talks will have to step up - as I envisage the region that contributes ~20% of GDP, will be v quick to strike to make themselves heard

That is 'how it plays out'. The Spanish 'we will not talk until Catalonia returns to legality' position, is unlikely to last long following a UDI. They are going to have to talk to sort it out.

[Bee]

They are planning to trigger the article 155 that will suspend the Catalonia autonomy.

[northernladyuk]

They are planning to trigger the article 155 that will suspend the Catalonia autonomy.

It will just escalate things. The Catalan government has already reached a place where they are claiming a higher authority than the Spanish constitution, so they will just ignore it, I expect.