Why the EU love in?

[NotAllThere]

At least the brexiter posts are not usually abusive, most of the cretin, thick as mince, etc. comes from the other side.

I think ...

You KEEP saying that, yet there is scant evidence to support the notion.

But keep it coming, it is comedy gold.

Thick as mince is one of mine. But it's not because they're Brexiters - it's the quality of their analytical thinking. If it helps, Scooterscot is as thick as mince as well.

[vetran]

Maybe because we did not need it.....

why did we not need support from our friends when we were sending our troops to fight & die for freedom?

Argentina, Cyprus (yes we saw that subtle invasion), Eire etc the EU could have helped they just had a slap up lunch instead!

[woohoo]

Thick as mince is one of mine. But it's not because they're Brexiters - it's the quality of their analytical thinking. If it helps, Scooterscot is as thick as mince as well.

Coming from the greatest thinker alive. You can barely manage moderating, something which is usually given to the person that has nothing better to do.

I have to agree with you about Scooterscot, he is a silly billy.

[woohoo]

Yes completely agree. That's what I keep saying.

when sasy agrees with you it's time to stop and have a strong word with yourself.

[shaunbhoy]

Thick as mince is one of mine.

Hardly a surprise. I suppose you felt that it had hurt you so much, and so regularly, that it might make a useful defence mechanism. Wrong on all counts however. So no change there.

[original PM]

why did we not need support from our friends when we were sending our troops to fight & die for freedom?

Argentina, Cyprus (yes we saw that subtle invasion), Eire etc the EU could have helped they just had a slap up lunch instead!

Mainly because we were not snowflakes back then who needed someone to come wipe our arse for us.

[excon]

We already had sovereignty while in the EU.

Just so we are on the same page, a definition of sovereignty:

supreme power or authority

the authority of a state to govern itself or another state.

A longish but worthwhile read on the primacy of EU law over UK law:

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/201...-be-sovereign/

My reading of this is that so long as we are members of the EU we can not create any laws that conflict with EU law. However we can once we repeal the European Communities Act 1972.

We already had control of our borders while in the EU.

Yes and no, our border is now in effect the outer border of the EU. Anyone who can cross that border and become an EU citizen due to our obligations to freedom of movement for EU citizens can now come to the UK as of course could the existing 500 million EU citizens. I would argue that this does not constitute absolute control of who can and cannot come and live in the UK.

We could already make our own laws while in the EU.

True but could not propose any that conflicted with EU law due to primacy, see above.

We could limit freedom of movement to those with employment
Successive governments chose not to, making it easier for people like you to blame the EU for everything that is wrong with the UK.

True but now they will have no such excuse and can be held to account.

It's not about "loving" the EU, it's about not hating everyone who isn't British. It's not about "loving", it's about wanting to work and travel without restrictions.
It's about not being cocooned little snowflakes who don't like anything that is beyond their limited framework or that challenges their viewpoint.

Not hating everyone who isn't British, do we need to be in the EU for that?

My major concerns and reasoning behind the leave vote wasn't just the current lack of democratic integrity and FIFA levels of self-aggrandisement but what the future held. It is a political project to create the United States of Europe but has become in effect the greater German reich. It has lost all control of it's borders and is so hell bent on political union it has persisted with a failing currency that has impoverished Southern Europe. The EU army is real and the EU clearly has ambitions to expand its influence potentially in conflict with Russia.

If we had voted remain in my opinion this would have been a green light for further integration, the Euro, the end of the rebate and a porous border with the very real possibility of war with Russia in the future.

Did I want to risk that for the possibility of working in France or Germany? No.

[Paddy]

Just so we are on the same page, a definition of sovereignty:

supreme power or authority

the authority of a state to govern itself or another state.

A longish but worthwhile read on the primacy of EU law over UK law:

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/201...-be-sovereign/

My reading of this is that so long as we are members of the EU we can not create any laws that conflict with EU law. However we can once we repeal the European Communities Act 1972.



Yes and no, our border is now in effect the outer border of the EU. Anyone who can cross that border and become an EU citizen due to our obligations to freedom of movement for EU citizens can now come to the UK as of course could the existing 500 million EU citizens. I would argue that this does not constitute absolute control of who can and cannot come and live in the UK.



True but could not propose any that conflicted with EU law due to primacy, see above.



True but now they will have no such excuse and can be held to account.



Not hating everyone who isn't British, do we need to be in the EU for that?

My major concerns and reasoning behind the leave vote wasn't just the current lack of democratic integrity and FIFA levels of self-aggrandisement but what the future held. It is a political project to create the United States of Europe but has become in effect the greater German reich. It has lost all control of it's borders and is so hell bent on political union it has persisted with a failing currency that has impoverished Southern Europe. The EU army is real and the EU clearly has ambitions to expand its influence potentially in conflict with Russia.

If we had voted remain in my opinion this would have been a green light for further integration, the Euro, the end of the rebate and a porous border with the very real possibility of war with Russia in the future.

Did I want to risk that for the possibility of working in France or Germany? No.

Bollox.

BTW. We were and are controlling our own boarders. For example, at the height of Polish immigration the Home Office were sending back one plane load of Polish back to Poland each week (another EU country). Its all a matter of the will to do it.

[BlasterBates]

Just so we are on the same page, a definition of sovereignty:

supreme power or authority

the authority of a state to govern itself or another state.

A longish but worthwhile read on the primacy of EU law over UK law:

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/201...-be-sovereign/

EU law covers trade änd environment only, all other areas are under the complete control of the UK government:

Tax and spending
Home Office
Defence
Health
Foreign Policy
Education

As Tony Blair pointed out none of his decisions were hampered by the EU, these included

intervention in Kosovo
independence of the Bank of England
intervention in Sierre Leone
invasion of Afganistan
tax credits for social welfare
tuition fees for higher education
increase in spending for the NHS by 8.2%
Introduction of the minimum wage
Devolution of Scotland and Wales
Northern Ireland peace agreement
invasion of Iraq
freedom of movement for Eastern Europeans from 2004 until 2012
increase on spending for transport by 8.5% per annum
Working Time Regulations of 1998, where British workers gained a statutory entitlement to paid holidays
"Early Excellence" centres opened, together with new nurseries
increasing child benefit by £2.50 a week above the rate of inflation
New rights for workers such as extended parental rights,
a significant raising of the maximum compensation figure for unfair dismissal
a restoration of the qualifying period for protection against unfair dismissal to 12 months
the right to be accompanied by a trade union official during a disciplinary or grievance hearing, whether or not a trade union is recognised
A proportional voting system for the election of Britain’s MEPs
the right of hereditary peers to sit in the House of Lords abolished
Police Reform Act 2002 established community support officers and reorganised national intelligence gathering
Private Hire Vehicles (Carriage of Guide Dogs) Act 2002 banned charges for guide dogs in minicabs
The International Development Act 2002 required spending to be used to reduce poverty and improve the welfare of the poor
The Travel Concessions (Eligibility) Act 2002 equalised the age at which men and women become entitled to travel concessions
Homelessness Act 2002, councils had to adopt homelessness strategies and do more for those homeless through no fault of their own, and the Commonhold
extended full British citizenship to 200,000 inhabitants of 14 British Overseas Territories
The Enterprise Act 2002 included measures to safeguard consumers, while also reforming bankruptcy and establishing a stronger Office of Fair Trading
creation of the Department for International Development, shifting global development policy away from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to an independent ministry with a Cabinet-level minister
the Water Industries Act 1999 ended the right of water companies to disconnect supplies "as a sanction against non-payment

EU law is any case shared sovereignty no EU laws can be introduced without consent from the UK government.

It is in conclusion complete nonsense to suggest Britain is not sovereign.

It would be ridiculous if a PM said he wasn't responsible for government legislation because he shared it with the cabinet.

The UK shares responsibility with the other 27 members for all EU legislation.

[excon]

EU law covers trade änd environment only, all other areas are under the complete control of the UK government:

Tax and spending
Home Office
Defence
Health
Foreign Policy
Education

As Tony Blair pointed out none of his decisions were hampered by the EU, these included

...

EU law is any case shared sovereignty no EU laws can be introduced without consent from the UK government.

It is in conclusion complete nonsense to suggest Britain is not sovereign.

It would be ridiculous if a PM said he wasn't responsible for government legislation because he shared it with the cabinet.

The UK shares responsibility with the other 27 members for all EU legislation.

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that a decision to remain was a vote for the status quo, it was not.

The direction of travel with this is clear and inexorable, ever closer political union and what areas of control we do have over taxation, defence and foreign affairs are all part of the program of integration.

From the treaty of Maastricht to the treaty of Lisbon, at every single point the UK government has had an opportunity to retain sovereignty it has given it away, without asking the UK electorate. Without the decision on June last year I see no reason why that would have changed.