More sick violence...

[northernladyuk]

The context here is Islam, not my belief - the Koran is singular in Islam, Hadiths and interpretations are not (hence different sects) - educate yourself, speak to some Muslims.

You made the assertion of multiple versions of the Koran, I'm still waiting, unless you want to retract it?

Why would speaking to Muslims help? Muslims are mistaken about God and Mohammed and are mistaken about the single version of the Koran. It is the nature of religious faith to believe things that are untrue. You have provided no evidence at all that there is a single version of the Koran. I'm still waiting, unless you want to retract it?


If you are interested, here is an example of variant texts of verses of the Koran:

Nobody suggested I wanted them gassed, it was suggested I was a bigot (where's the evidence?!) - I made an extreme caricature to stress that point. Stressing the point isn't a strawman - I didn't attempt to attack something I'd have an easier time debating.

You didn't stress the point. You made a strawman to make you look like a victim. Pathetic really.

[WTFH]

No point in arguing with him - he admits he has multiple personalities, calling himself "the chuckle brothers", he also jumps between Islam and Muslims when it suits, but still doesn't want to talk about how many pillars of Islam there are, and what the differences are between historic stories and teachings.

[TheGreenBastard]

Why would speaking to Muslims help? Muslims are mistaken about God and Mohammed and are mistaken about the single version of the Koran. It is the nature of religious faith to believe things that are untrue. You have provided no evidence at all that there is a single version of the Koran. I'm still waiting, unless you want to retract it?


If you are interested, here is an example of variant texts of verses of the Koran:





You didn't stress the point. You made a strawman to make you look like a victim. Pathetic really.

Ask them what they believe, what their ideology is and that the Islamic theology is of Islamic institutions. The idea that there is a single version of the Koran is a requirement in Islam - this is my argument.

Your example looks like Classical / Archaic Arabic vs. modern Arabic so I'm not sure it conveys the argument you're hoping to make.

No, it was to stress the point. You deliquents round here are so assumptive! I'm not pathetic enough as you folk to want to be a "victim" on an internet forum.

[NotAllThere]

Yeah, base on the original.

What "original" might that be? Of course, the different versions of the Bible are rather different translations. Where there can be debate is over textual variations - i.e. text differences between the source documents. Since the Bible is made up of many separate books and letters, there's also argument about what is scripture and what isn't.

Most Muslims hold to a myth that there are no, and never have been any, textual variations of the Koran. It is an article of faith. But they're true believers, so any counter evidence is ignored. See here for an example of this in action. http://www.irfi.org/articles2/articl...extualhtml.htm

[Pip in a Poke]

I'd strip 'em naked and tie them up to a tree in the orchard with a suckling goat.

[OwlHoot]

Most Muslims hold to a myth that there are no, and never have been any, textual variations of the Koran. It is an article of faith. But they're true believers, so any counter evidence is ignored. See here for an example of this in action. quran separated in variant textual

I think I read somewhere, which seemed quite authoritative at the time, that the text of the Koran, even down to the spelling, has not been changed over the centuries since it was first compiled. But I don't claim to be an expert, and it may be that was simply propagating the "myth" you mentioned.

If so, that implies the Arabic language hasn't changed that much either over the same time, even if compared with modern everyday Arabic the Koran might be the equivalent linguistically of the King James Bible, or even Chaucer i.e. requiring careful study and interpretation to fully understand.

[TheGreenBastard]

No point in arguing with him - he admits he has multiple personalities, calling himself "the chuckle brothers", he also jumps between Islam and Muslims when it suits, but still doesn't want to talk about how many pillars of Islam there are, and what the differences are between historic stories and teachings.

Like I said, tell me what you want to discuss and we'll dance.

While you're at it, quote me where I jump between Islam and Muslims - in fact I've corrected you thickos multiple times to assert I'm discussing Islam.

I think I read somewhere, which seemed quite authoritative at the time, that the text of the Koran, even down to the spelling, has not been changed over the centuries since it was first compiled. But I don't claim to be an expert, and it may be that was simply propagating the "myth" you mentioned.

If so, that implies the Arabic language hasn't changed that much either over the same time, even if compared with modern everyday Arabic the Koran might be the equivalent linguistically of the King James Bible, or even Chaucer i.e. requiring careful study and interpretation to fully understand.

The Koran (in the Islamic ideological sense) is an infallible copy of the "mother of books" - existing for eternity at the side of Allah, narrated to Muhammad perfectly via the angel Gabriel (just don't mention the satanic verses). This is core to Islam. Shame people in here 1) just don't know WTF they're talking about 2) are thick beyond belief 3) are so commited to a narrative no amount of evidence can change their minds

[northernladyuk]

Ask them what they believe, what their ideology is and that the Islamic theology is of Islamic institutions. The idea that there is a single version of the Koran is a requirement in Islam - this is my argument.

Well, your argument was that there is a single version of the Koran, but I'm glad to have educated you a little.

I've had la few Muslim friends and colleagues over the years, and one of the things that's always struck me as odd is that they often think there is only one way of being a Muslim, but they don't have the same idea of what that one way is. There is no single Muslim ideology that could be interpreted as 'wanting to rule the world'. You certainly haven't demonstrated one, in any case.

[TheGreenBastard]

Well, your argument was that there is a single version of the Koran, but I'm glad to have educated you a little.

I've had la few Muslim friends and colleagues over the years, and one of the things that's always struck me as odd is that they often think there is only one way of being a Muslim, but they don't have the same idea of what that one way is. There is no single Muslim ideology that could be interpreted as 'wanting to rule the world'. You certainly haven't demonstrated one, in any case.

As my last post; within Islamic ideology there is one Koran - the mother of books. There are multiple sects drawing on interpretation of the Hadiths etc - but all will assert the oneness of the Koran across sects.

So your Arabic image, you've yet to explain what it means - did you know it was contrasting Archaic Arabic vs modern?

[northernladyuk]

2) Nah sorry, there aren't multiple versions... Good try though!

As my last post; within Islamic ideology there is one Koran - the mother of books. There are multiple sects drawing on interpretation of the Hadiths etc - but all will assert the oneness of the Koran across sects.

Once again, I'm pleased to have educated you from a position of asserting that there is one version of the Koran to asserting that Islamic ideology [sic] holds that there is one Koran.

Well done. This is like moving from a position of asserting that Mohammed is the Prophet of God, to asserting that Islamic ideology [sic] holds that Mohammed is the Prophet of God.

So your Arabic image, you've yet to explain what it means - did you know it was contrasting Archaic Arabic vs modern?

It's a long time since I studied Arabic and I was never much good at it, but I do know the difference. What you will see that there are multiple versions of the Koran in use. Consider the transmitted version of Imam Hafs and the transmitted version of Imam Warsh. The differences are remarkably minor for such an old book, but they are distinctly different versions.