So I think its finally dawned on IPSE's management

[SussexSeagull]

Can someone tell me about one success they have had?

IR35 - still very much in place and show no signs of being clarified

Immigration - We now have tens of thousands of Indian contractors with leave to remain while contractors are out of work (granted offshoring isn't their department)

Uber - The iceberg that is going to consume contracting, IMHO. The government are eventually going to have to stop people being forced to be self employed (for tax take reasons if nothing else) and that will more than likely consume us.

I don't hear a lot of comment about it.

[jonnyboy]

The battle ground now should be to get employee rights for those in a Public Sector contract using CL1's own documentation guidance and the Uber ruling. Fighting for the right to be Freelance isn't the correct battle, fighting to be treated in the exact same way as permanent staff is the approach that needs to be taken.

I hear what you are saying, but thats a quantum leap from where we are today. Today, the battle will (for those staying in the PS) be to make sure the date rate covers the loss of expenses and the employers tax costs. But go down the Uber 'we want our rights' is a different kettle of fish.

Imagine project manager Bob wanting a developer for 6 months.. currently he may have to pay more per day to cover the cost and get the technical skills he needs. With the full rights in placve, he is looking to get HR signed off on sickness pay, holiday pay, maternity pay, employment dismissal rights, yada, yada, yada.

[missinggreenfields]

Just now, they tweeted a "have you used our IR35 contract review service" tweet

I wish I had the same time machine as you - that tweet was on November 20th at 10am

[eek]

I hear what you are saying, but thats a quantum leap from where we are today. Today, the battle will (for those staying in the PS) be to make sure the date rate covers the loss of expenses and the employers tax costs. But go down the Uber 'we want our rights' is a different kettle of fish.

Imagine project manager Bob wanting a developer for 6 months.. currently he may have to pay more per day to cover the cost and get the technical skills he needs. With the full rights in placve, he is looking to get HR signed off on sickness pay, holiday pay, maternity pay, employment dismissal rights, yada, yada, yada.

Bob's problem is that that is what is going to happen regardless. The moves are already in play that mean there will be contractors in the public sector (albeit probably first or second level service desk rather than developers) who will be going to tribunals to get rights.

[missinggreenfields]

The battle ground now should be to get employee rights for those in a Public Sector contract using CL1's own documentation guidance and the Uber ruling. Fighting for the right to be Freelance isn't the correct battle, fighting to be treated in the exact same way as permanent staff is the approach that needs to be taken.

Which of the IPSE board candidates are you - I don't have a vote but I'd love to see you succeed in your campaign.

Good luck - we need you

[eek]

Which of the IPSE board candidates are you - I don't have a vote but I'd love to see you succeed in your campaign.

Good luck - we need you

I'm not and nor am I on the CC - I don't want to be associated with it. I'm only a member because I know mentioning IPSE knocks you well down the list of people likely to get an IR35 investigation as soon as you refer them to your tax advisor (IPSE)..

IPSE and myself have very different views on how you should lobby. They believe you should just tell them why it won't work, I find it far more productive to provide a win-win type solutions.

One thing IPSE cannot grasp is that an consultation sits on a senior policy civil servant's annual review and so the consultation cannot and will not fail. The best you can hope for is to identify the compromise that makes it a win win.

Furthermore you can't even argue that it will cause implementation issues. That is actually a bonus to a policy civil servant as it means those in implementation are going to have a really bad review the following year and come the promotion panel....

[missinggreenfields]

I'm not and nor am I on the CC - I don't want to be associated with it. I'm only a member because I know mentioning IPSE knocks you well down the list of people likely to get an IR35 investigation as soon as you refer them to your tax advisor (IPSE)..

IPSE and myself have very different views on how you should lobby. They believe you should just tell them why it won't work, I find it far more productive to provide a win-win type solutions.

One thing IPSE cannot grasp is that an consultation sits on a senior policy civil servant's annual review and so the consultation cannot and will not fail. The best you can hope for is to identify the compromise that makes it a win win.

Furthermore you can't even argue that it will cause implementation issues. That is actually a bonus to a policy civil servant as it means those in implementation are going to have a really bad review the following year.

so, you have better access to government. Government listen to you. You know how to lobby, and have had success with lobbying government. You have past experience of changing the mindset of senior civil servants and know how it's best to do that.

And you decide that your best approach, rather than trying to get involved and help, is to do nothing apart from sit on the outside telling cuk how great you are instead. You're the one with all this experience, and you decided that you would sit back and then gloat when people get thrown under the bus.

That makes you a special kind of f***ing dick in my book.

[SimonMac]

I'm not and nor am I on the CC - I don't want to be associated with it. I'm only a member because I know mentioning IPSE knocks you well down the list of people likely to get an IR35 investigation as soon as you refer them to your tax advisor (IPSE)..

IPSE and myself have very different views on how you should lobby. They believe you should just tell them why it won't work, I find it far more productive to provide a win-win type solutions.

One thing IPSE cannot grasp is that an consultation sits on a senior policy civil servant's annual review and so the consultation cannot and will not fail. The best you can hope for is to identify the compromise that makes it a win win.

Furthermore you can't even argue that it will cause implementation issues. That is actually a bonus to a policy civil servant as it means those in implementation are going to have a really bad review the following year and come the promotion panel....

What compromise would you have offered on the PS changes then?

[SussexSeagull]

so, you have better access to government. Government listen to you. You know how to lobby, and have had success with lobbying government. You have past experience of changing the mindset of senior civil servants and know how it's best to do that.

And you decide that your best approach, rather than trying to get involved and help, is to do nothing apart from sit on the outside telling cuk how great you are instead. You're the one with all this experience, and you decided that you would sit back and then gloat when people get thrown under the bus.

That makes you a special kind of f***ing dick in my book.

That is harsh. The guy is a private citizen and not an unpaid advocate for the entire contracting industry.

Insurance aside I think IPSE are all talk and it will take more than one person to change that.

[eek]

so, you have better access to government. Government listen to you. You know how to lobby, and have had success with lobbying government. You have past experience of changing the mindset of senior civil servants and know how it's best to do that.

And you decide that your best approach, rather than trying to get involved and help, is to do nothing apart from sit on the outside telling cuk how great you are instead. You're the one with all this experience, and you decided that you would sit back and then gloat when people get thrown under the bus.

That makes you a special kind of f***ing dick in my book.

I know how these things work and also know there are battles you can win and battles you can't. This was one you really really couldn't win. Read my last paragraph again and imagine if you are that senior policy civil servant.

I think I announced immediately what I was proposing to do as soon as the consultation began (hint start my own consultancy and shift to selling software as a service) and as with most things I've been very very consistent.