So I think its finally dawned on IPSE's management

[bobspud]

To be honest some contractors don't help the cause by keeping their head down, acting like a permanent employee and rack up the renewals.

It drags all of us down.

Thats another myth. Banging in 10 years of top money is fine as long as you can show that you were on different projects in that time and that there was a clear demarcation.

[MrMarkyMark]

I do actually know that. But Eek is not making a lot of sense either, and his "I know how to fix this" nonsense is starting to wear thin. Easy to be very wise after the event, but none of his previous efforts have done a hell of a lot of good either, have they.

FWIW IPSE are engaging in a serious discussion about how to go forward with this now. Feel free to join in.

As I said earlier IPSE haven't done a lot better?
I believe Eek was wise well before the event actually and he has tried to help, I personally have found his inputs very useful.

I have always found it mildy disconcerting that IPSE sold insurances providing cover for what it was supposed to be fighting against.

But, maybe that's just me

[SussexSeagull]

Thats another myth. Banging in 10 years of top money is fine as long as you can show that you were on different projects in that time and that there was a clear demarcation.

It is entirely possible to stay somewhere 10 years and stay out of IR35. I just think not many people do it.

[MrMarkyMark]

Thats another myth. Banging in 10 years of top money is fine as long as you can show that you were on different projects in that time and that there was a clear demarcation.

Very true.

I got 3 years of work, last contract, as once they saw my presentation of what needed to be done, what risks would be reduced and how much benefits it was going to give them, they decided to do all of it, very profitable.

Currently back doing another 6 months now, as unsurprisingly they came and found me directly because I already know the systems.

[youngguy]

I would suggest IPSE put out a press release saying something like 'we shall be examining what employment rights contractors in the public sector should be receiving now it has been decided they are under SDC'.

Make the powers that be know there maybe consequences.

This.

Surely the time for talk is over (Gov ignored IPSE, and everyone else). Now is the time to take action and start legal advice on how contractors get rights.....or are deemed businesses .

Solo contractors cannot do that alone - we need ipse to step up and stop talking and start doing.

[youngguy]

So let me ask another question....

What about the online test re SCD... what about if SCD is not in place? what about if you had a strongly worded document that said you could do everything needed as you saw fit with no control in place?

Re : IR35:Substitution, control and mutuality of obligation :: Contractor UK

If there is no SCD, does this mean that it gets a NO on the electronic test, therefore free of IR35?

I know people say that agents will not take the risk, but if the tool says NO, there is evidence of no SCD, and the consultation document states that "the HMRC will stand by the result of the tool", does this mean all of this is not an issue?

My concern is the tool will be delivered so close to the 'wore, there won't be any time to do anything useful with it, and general feeling is it will be heavily weighted to put all inside

[youngguy]

Well, until eek posts his response to my previous (4 prong approach question) I think my own personal game plan will be... (bearing in mind my current PS client is offering to cover any change)

1) Drop my accountant an email see if I can get a rate value that I need to adjust my day rate by
2) Let the dust settle till 1st December
3) Keep my local group of contractors in the loop and educated (mostly from places such as this)
4) Book a meeting with my clients top manager, discuss the IR35, the scope that in the future they may be obliged to pay lots of employee perks
5) On 1st December, start hitting the agencies for any private gigs
6) Speak to my current agent for this PS gig, see what their stance is re SCD and out of IR35 (I dont imagine that if I asked now, they would have a clue as to what they are doing)
7) If I can get a private sector gig, jump
8) If not, stay here on an increased rate, whilst still trying for a private gig
9) All whilst working on plan B (more freelance direct work)

10) Removing the auto renewal on my IPSE membership

Good plan and consider yourself lucky that the client is willing to cover the costs.

If you plan on staying on the PS why not go brolly? Less hassle and probably a little bit cheaper from what I can tell (do your sums tho!)

[MrMarkyMark]

This.

Surely the time for talk is over (Gov ignored IPSE, and everyone else). Now is the time to take action and start legal advice on how contractors get rights.....or are deemed businesses .

Solo contractors cannot do that alone - we need ipse to step up and stop talking and start doing.

But suddenly a lot of income will be lost if it is all resolved .

Point being it should be presented that those who are in, or plan to be in, the PS after April 2017 are either deemed some kind of temp, BOS, paying PAYE, but having employment rights (possibly backdated?), or they are an independent specialist contractor that fall out of such a costly scheme.

Very simple really

[youngguy]

But suddenly a lot of income will be lost if it is all resolved .

Point being it should be presented that those who are in, or plan to be in, the PS after April 2017 are either deemed some kind of temp, BOS, paying PAYE, but having employment rights (possibly backdated?), or they are an independent specialist contractor that fall out of such a costly scheme.

Very simple really

Well I won't need ipse from April as there is no point paying for insurance for something that has happened!

Totally agree. Gov can give us rights or treat us as businesses but they can't have their cake. Ipse need to show teeth as the lobbying was a failure (not totally their fault ). At the moment there is no downside for anyone except us...time to start working on the case law ...after all there must be loads of 5yr + ps contractors who ipse could use as studies NOW. They can't wait until April.
I see on ipse they say they will take a careful considered approach and keep talking....but we know that doesn't work.

Let's start seeing the cost of rights etc rather than hoping gov will see sense

[youngguy]

So this is what the chief exec of ipse has said today
"We should also temper our expectations, and those of our members, whilst we'll endeavour to make our case to Parliament and elsewhere. It may be that the public sector decision cannot be rolled back and thus the next real battle will be about preventing this disastrous proposal spreading to the private sector."


Says it all really. I won't be renewing my membership