Was: Should May re-introduce grammar schools? Now: immigration

[BrilloPad]

I could only find a daily mail link which I am not going to post here.

But it seems May is thinking of re-introducing Grammar schools.

Personally I think this is a good idea. But not a priority at the moment.

[CretinWatcher]

Pointless. The 52% of people who need educating won't get in.
Eugenics might have worked if we had introduced it earlier, instead we did the opposite and paid for the feckless to breed.
It's too late - the uncompetitive cretins in the country outnumber the intelligent.

[Old Greg]

Pointless. The 52% of people who need educating won't get in.
Eugenics might have worked if we had introduced it earlier, instead we did the opposite and paid for the feckless to breed.
It's too late - the uncompetitive cretins in the country outnumber the intelligent.

The best solution is an 11+ exam, and anyone who passes is granted citizenship by an EU member state.

[LondonManc]

Definitely needed, for both ends of the scale.

There seems to be some sort of bell curve that academia have assigned to pupils that they seem intent on squashing by supressing the cleverest and focussing on the weakest to bring them up to scrape through exams. A two-tier secondary education system would allow the elite to shine and those that are less academically inclined to pursue vocational interests at a younger age and see that manual career skills, such as plumbing and electrician, are genuine career paths and not where failed uni and college students end up. That in turn would reduce the number of degrees issued, something which needs doing as they have become so devalued since Bliar and co started dumbing down the nation.

[Malcolm Buggeridge]

Well, since there are state sponsored Steiner Schools popping up right left and centre in my neck of the woods, I can only hope that the appearance of a few grammar schools will help to redress the social balance around here away from scruffy leftie hippy types and their feral offspring who have moved to the area to be close to these centres of educational quackery.

[VectraMan]

Definitely needed, for both ends of the scale.

There seems to be some sort of bell curve that academia have assigned to pupils that they seem intent on squashing by supressing the cleverest and focussing on the weakest to bring them up to scrape through exams. A two-tier secondary education system would allow the elite to shine and those that are less academically inclined to pursue vocational interests at a younger age and see that manual career skills, such as plumbing and electrician, are genuine career paths and not where failed uni and college students end up. That in turn would reduce the number of degrees issued, something which needs doing as they have become so devalued since Bliar and co started dumbing down the nation.

Why two tier?

Form memory in high school we were organised into 8 maths levels (for maths and science subjects), and 8 english levels (for everything else) and there was a lower level called "Basic Skills" (I'm sure the PC brigade would never allow that now). Presumably schools still work in a similar multi-tier way.

The problem with grammar schools is that it divides everybody into one or the other based on one test at one age with little hope of being able to move up (or down). It's a classic righty gross oversimplification of a complex issue.

[SueEllen]

Definitely needed, for both ends of the scale.

There seems to be some sort of bell curve that academia have assigned to pupils that they seem intent on squashing by supressing the cleverest and focussing on the weakest to bring them up to scrape through exams. A two-tier secondary education system would allow the elite to shine and those that are less academically inclined to pursue vocational interests at a younger age and see that manual career skills, such as plumbing and electrician, are genuine career paths and not where failed uni and college students end up. That in turn would reduce the number of degrees issued, something which needs doing as they have become so devalued since Bliar and co started dumbing down the nation.

It's OK in theory but not in practice.

If the cleverest pupils are going on to get degrees then it would and is presumed that unless you go to Grammar school and get a degree you are a failure.

Also as boys mature later than girls so the 11+ is simply not fair on the majority of them. The old Grammar school system ensured that the results were skewed to favour boys, so a girl who got the same result as a boy wouldn't get a Grammar school place even though the boy did. They wouldn't be able to do this any more, so any mixed Grammar school would be end up having too many girls and not enough boys.

Anyway the best comprehensive schools actually do and always have separated pupils by ability. The best of the best do it per subject. Also the best comprehensives tend to be in richer areas.

[Malcolm Buggeridge]

Also as boys mature later than girls so the 11+ is simply not fair on the majority of them. The old Grammar school system ensured that the results were skewed to favour boys, so a girl who got the same result as a boy wouldn't get a Grammar school place even though the boy did.

Really?

Got any evidence of that?

l

[vetran]

far too much resistance to it by the local education authorities.

We made the mistake of discussing the 11 plus with someone in the local education authority. You would have thought we were offering offspring to Satan. I suspect this is most of the problem The academies & Grammar schools manage to escape the local authorities mainly.

Good schools get good results Both of our older kids are at academies and have had great results. The local comprehensives are tanking.


Grammar schools round our way are filled with Indian Kids that have been at tuition since they were 6 (good on the parents).

[DimPrawn]

Pointless. The 52% of people who need educating won't get in.
Eugenics might have worked if we had introduced it earlier, instead we did the opposite and paid for the feckless to breed.
It's too late - the uncompetitive cretins in the country outnumber the intelligent.

Most increase in population here is through immigration, are you saying our immigrants are thick now?