Brexit won't stop EU migration

[sasguru]

Is that the best you can do to avoid the question?

I thought it was quite clear that i'm against "uncontrolled" immigration.
That's what this thread is about.
I don't know what the solution is though - although I suspect some highly pragmatic "discouragement" could work wonders.

[jamesbrown]

Oh come now, not all of the Eurozone is a basket case - exclude the PIIGs and things are quite spiffing in Germany (which has massive surpluses unlike our deficits and manages to out-export the US ), Holland and even France. Even Spain is growing now, faster than the UK.

Germany is one of the reasons the rest of the EU is a basket case (where do you think that massive surplus comes from?), but they will be following soon enough. Political and fiscal integration (a prerequisite for a single currency) implies a huge transfer of wealth from Germany. That isn't going to happen without a political earthquake. Extreme parties are gaining traction in Germany, Austria and elsewhere. The Eurozone is structurally flawed and, unlike Mario Draghi, the Germans are unwilling to do "whatever it takes", because they understand the political consequences. Growth is a poor index for prosperity in any case, because GDP is so unevenly distributed. The rate of youth unemployment in Spain is around 45%.

[sasguru]

Germany is one of the reasons the rest of the EU is a basket case (where do you think that massive surplus comes from?), but they will be following soon enough. Political and fiscal integration (a prerequisite for a single currency) implies a huge transfer of wealth from Germany. That isn't going to happen without a political earthquake. Extreme parties are gaining traction in Germany, Austria and elsewhere. The Eurozone is structurally flawed and, unlike Mario Draghi, the Germans are unwilling to do "whatever it takes", because they understand the political consequences. Growth is a poor index for prosperity in any case, because GDP is so unevenly distributed. The rate of youth unemployment in Spain is around 45%.

I think you underestimate Germany's commitment to Europe. A whole generation has been brought up to fear themselves and been told their only place is within Europe. Yes there are vocal nationalists: that's a pan-Western phenomenon not just confined to Euroland (see Trump or Farage), but the majority of Germans, French and Italians are for the European project.
Of course that may change with massive external shocks (e.g. migrant crisis) but I do think people here in the UK really underestimate how committed to Europe most continentals are.

[DodgyAgent]

I thought it was quite clear that i'm against "uncontrolled" immigration.
.

And how exactly does that work being a member of the EU?

[sasguru]

And how exactly does that work being a member of the EU?

Feck me, you're dense.

Here's a link that may help.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...migration.html

[DodgyAgent]

I think you underestimate Germany's commitment to Europe. A whole generation has been brought up to fear themselves and been told their only place is within Europe. Yes there are vocal nationalists: that's a pan-Western phenomenon not just confined to Euroland (see Trump or Farage), but the majority of Germans, French and Italians are for the European project.
Of course that may change with massive external shocks (e.g. migrant crisis) but I do think people here in the UK really underestimate how committed to Europe most continentals are.

It goes like this.

Germany coerces all of the EU nations to join the Euro.
This raises the costs of production of manufactured and other goods up to German levels thus removing competition.
Currency rates of the EURO are kept low courtesy of poor preforming EU economies. germany on the other hand can sell its goods at disproportionately low prices.
German banks lend money to poorer EU citizens to buy German goods that they cannot pay off.
Poor EU countries live the rest of their days in austerity and poverty paying off their loans to German banks when they should actually be devaluing their currencies to boost their own manufacturing.
Germany then to rub salt into the wounds offers to pay Africa and asia to invade Southern Europe and the Baltics in order to show the world how compassionate they are

[DodgyAgent]

Feck me, you're dense.

Here's a link that may help.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...migration.html

You are still avoiding the question. How hard can it be to understand this;

Do you believe in uncontrolled immigration?
if you do then fine.
If you do not then how do you square this belief by also believing that the UK should remain in the EU?

[BlasterBates]

It goes like this.

Germany coerces all of the EU nations to join the Euro.

It was a French project.

The notion of a single currency was around for a long time, France pushed it and Germany agreed to get unification. Germany was quite reluctant to give up the DM.

The expansion to the East is the biggest success in UK foreign policy, without the UK a lot of Eastern European countries would have spent an eternity dealing with their applications.

I suspect Turkey will not become a member in the forseeable future because both Germany and the UK don't want any more expansion.

[DodgyAgent]

It was a French project.

The notion of a single currency was around for a long time, France pushed it and Germany agreed to get unification. Germany was quite reluctant to give up the DM.

The expansion to the East is the biggest success in UK foreign policy, without the UK a lot of Eastern European countries would have spent an eternity dealing with their applications.

I suspect Turkey will not become a member in the forseeable future because both Germany and the UK don't want any more expansion.

It may have been initiated by France but it is Germany that has benefitted from it and continues to control the EURO

[jamesbrown]

I think you underestimate Germany's commitment to Europe. A whole generation has been brought up to fear themselves and been told their only place is within Europe. Yes there are vocal nationalists: that's a pan-Western phenomenon not just confined to Euroland (see Trump or Farage), but the majority of Germans, French and Italians are for the European project.
Of course that may change with massive external shocks (e.g. migrant crisis) but I do think people here in the UK really underestimate how committed to Europe most continentals are.

Perhaps. I haven't lived in Germany for long. I was in Tubingen for 6 months, and I didn't get that impression. I've also lived in quite a few other EU countries over the years (the last was NL for ~4 years), and I've anecdotally found that Euroscepticism is strong, widespread, and growing. I suppose it depends where you are and what you're looking for. Overall, I think there's a large degree of truth in that article by Charles Moore, posted earlier in the thread. While "elite" is mostly a lazy pejorative, the problem to which it refers is undeniable; the EU takes detachment to a new, unprecedented, level.