Seven risks of voting to remain

[DodgyAgent]

It's CUK 2008 all over again!

If being part of the Euro was on the cards then I would probably vote to leave, as I would if there was a big move towards a European super state. But it's not. Even if the assurances Cameron obtained are entirely worthless, nothing stops us having another in/out referendum in future if either of those things become true. No government, not even a loony left one would dare sign us up to either of those things without a referendum anyway.

We can't move the island, and assuming we want to continue our 50% trade with the EU then we're inextricably linked to what happens there, as we always have been throughout history.

The EU is moving towards the superstate and sooner or later the UK will have to join the EURO - If we do not Cameron and Osborne will not be invited to join the EU for a job on the gravy train.

[Intel]

Which means what exactly? If there's some kind of practical application of it then we need to decide on the basis of what's actually going to happen rather than running round in circles screaming about things that exist only in Kippers' imaginations.

Therein lies the problem. We can only vote on what is on the table. The implication however is that a European superstate is the target as repeated in those treaties over decades. Incidentally just lumping all those voting to leave as "Kippers" is a little OTT. Some of us are capable of doing the research and making our own minds up without jumping on the UKIP bandwagon.

We always have the legal right for another referendum if we really can't opt-out of something we don't like. However the only major real world examples of closer union are the Euro and the Schengen zone, and we opted out of both. What are you so worried about?

Are we sure we have the legal right for another referendum? The UK supreme court is subservient to the European court of justice. What if they pass legislation on the back of an "in" vote that makes it illegal to have more than 1 referendum every 20 years? I appreciate that this is an edge case and very unlikely without rioting on the streets but it is currently entirely feasible given the EU court overrides our own supreme court.

The first one. The second option doesn't exist.

It will do soon enough. Why do our passports have "European Union" at the very top, above the "United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland" wording?



Again, if the European politicians had the balls to state what the end game looked like and then sold it to the populous in a positive fashion I think most people would go for it. As it stands however it seems doomed to fail because of the political in-fighting.

[DodgyAgent]

Why is the idea of superstate so scary to you anyway ?

Ask the Poles, Hungarians Slovaks etc etc. Or you could read some history books and see what happens when states gather power and increase their size and influence or you could look at any large corporate and see how it gets bigger and how it expands or you could read a book called "Janet & John's guide to human behaviour"

[Gumbo Robot]

Why is the idea of superstate so scary to you anyway ?

It's a Utopian ideal & the history of the USSR should clearly demonstrate that the reality is that it will ultimately need to become a tyranny just in order to keep it together.

[BrilloPad]

Why is the idea of superstate so scary to you anyway ?

Personally, I would like to see more localisation rather than globalisation. One size fits all does not work.

Also, it would be far easier if the UK shared common values with those we are sharing sovereignty with. The Germans tend to be more hard working and less fun loving than those in the UK, for instance. Sweeping generalisation.

[DodgyAgent]

Personally, I would like to see more localisation rather than globalisation. One size fits all does not work.

Also, it would be far easier if the UK shared common values with those we are sharing sovereignty with. The Germans tend to be more hard working and less fun loving than those in the UK, for instance. Sweeping generalisation.

Bring back Derek Hatton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Hatton

[dx4100]

It's a Utopian ideal & the history of the USSR should clearly demonstrate that the reality is that it will ultimately need to become a tyranny just in order to keep it together.

And the USA ? Or does that not count ? or is that a tyranny in your eyes ?

[Gumbo Robot]

And the USA ? Or does that not count ?

A new country built on immigration without the centuries old cultural divisions found in Europe.

That is maybe why the EU is so big on mass immigration - mix us all up a bit in order to blur these national / cultural boundaries. I can see an argument for that but I believe it's being done against the will of the people & that in itself is tyrannical.

[dx4100]

The reactions to my questions is funny and clearly shows the level of madness at operation here We are going to become the Soviet Russia

Its all fear and madness from the outters. I haven't heard a rational reason for us to leave yet.

In all the way for me

[DodgyAgent]

And the USA ? Or does that not count ? or is that a tyranny in your eyes ?

The difference between the EU and the USA is that the USA has seen itself as a single country since it chucked the British out and became independent. Furthermore the USA is a first line democracy in a way that the Eu is not. The effects of democracy are that the establishment is being challenged by the people in the USA right now. We may not like Trump but the people are tired of the status quo and are saying so. Something that could never happen in the EU.

The EU is much closer to the Soviet Union in how it is structured. Individual countries were run by leaders "in hock" to the Russian dominated government. The will of the people of poland was delivered not through the government in control but by the third party of the trade union movement.