Seven risks of voting to remain

[BrilloPad]

We would rather go with their collective wisdom than that of the council of ministers for the EU - at least we have the power to get rid of Gove, Johnson, farage and IDS and bring in your mate Corbyn to ruin things if we want

FTFY

[DodgyAgent]

Mervyn King, and another 300+ economists, said the same about Geoffrey Howe reforms.

Many said the same about joining the Euro - we had to join. In fact, it is largely the same lot who said we have to join the Euro who are now saying we have to stay in.

It seems to be a religious belief. The in crowd open the bible and read the book of Merkel where it says "the UK shall stay in the Eurozone or a plague of locusts shall be sent to smite you".

It is the arrogance of believing that unless we give way to the powers that be and the vested interests of the establishment that we are not able to cope.

[DodgyAgent]

FTFY

Good point

[dx4100]

Mervyn King, and another 300+ economists, said the same about Geoffrey Howe reforms.

Many said the same about joining the Euro - we had to join. In fact, it is largely the same lot who said we have to join the Euro who are now saying we have to stay in.

It seems to be a religious belief. The in crowd open the bible and read the book of Merkel where it says "the UK shall stay in the Eurozone or a plague of locusts shall be sent to smite you".

We are not in the Eurozone....

[BrilloPad]

We are not in the Eurozone....

Exactly! Proof that the book of Merkel was made up....

[jamesbrown]

We are not in the Eurozone....

The Eurozone is structurally flawed and its implosion is inevitable. Germany will never agree to the transfer of wealth necessary to secure the fiscal and political integration that would avoid this. Obviously, We can't shield ourselves fully from that inevitability, but we can minimise the fallout by disassociating ourselves from the political project, and perhaps they will listen and change course. Imagine that. The EU is a fair weather union.

[Intel]

The idea that the UK is going to get swallowed up and become part of a European superstate is laughable at best...

Text from the 1957 Treaty of Rome:

“Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe ….."
and from article 2 in the treaty:
“closer relations between the States belonging to it”

From the solemn declaration on the EU from June 1983:
"on the basis of an awareness of a common destiny and the wish to affirm the European identity, confirm their commitment to progress towards an ever closer union among the peoples and Member States of the European Community"

From the 1986 Single European Act:
“MOVED by the will to … transform relations as a whole among their States into a European Union”

From the 1992 Maastricht Treaty:
"RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity."

From the 1997 Amsterdam Treaty, a new qualification to the "ever closer union" statement:
“in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen”

From the 2009 Lisbon treaty:
"This Treaty marks a new stage in the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen."

From the treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU - the renamed TEC):
"DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe …."


Sounds like a United States of Europe to me.....

[VectraMan]

The Eurozone is structurally flawed and its implosion is inevitable.

It's CUK 2008 all over again!

If being part of the Euro was on the cards then I would probably vote to leave, as I would if there was a big move towards a European super state. But it's not. Even if the assurances Cameron obtained are entirely worthless, nothing stops us having another in/out referendum in future if either of those things become true. No government, not even a loony left one would dare sign us up to either of those things without a referendum anyway.

We can't move the island, and assuming we want to continue our 50% trade with the EU then we're inextricably linked to what happens there, as we always have been throughout history.

[jamesbrown]

It's CUK 2008 all over again!

If being part of the Euro was on the cards then I would probably vote to leave, as I would if there was a big move towards a European super state. But it's not. Even if the assurances Cameron obtained are entirely worthless, nothing stops us having another in/out referendum in future if either of those things become true. No government, not even a loony left one would dare sign us up to either of those things without a referendum anyway.

We can't move the island, and assuming we want to continue our 50% trade with the EU then we're inextricably linked to what happens there, as we always have been throughout history.

I'm not sure if you're missing the point or evading it, but this has nothing to do with our membership of the Eurozone. Precisely the opposite, ironically. We cannot avoid the indirect impacts a Eurozone implosion, but a UK within the EU will be on the hook directly. To believe anything else is magical thinking.

[dx4100]

Exactly! Proof that the book of Merkel was made up....

The only person making stuff up is you