Why I'll be voting to stay in Europe

[vetran]

I always felt that doctors and dentists suffered from what I would call left/right syndrome. Compared to the vast majority of the population, they are very well paid - even for purely NHS work. However, they only chat amongst themselves (ie looking to the left and right instead of up and down) and quite often feel hard done by. Yes, they have a five year course, and many years of further study, but this training is still mainly at the tax payers' experience. It's something like £600K to get to consultant level. They also have a defined career path, handsome pension and a good level of prestige that comes with the job.

very well put

[sasguru]

I always felt that doctors and dentists suffered from what I would call left/right syndrome. Compared to the vast majority of the population, they are very well paid - even for purely NHS work. However, they only chat amongst themselves (ie looking to the left and right instead of up and down) and quite often feel hard done by. Yes, they have a five year course, and many years of further study, but this training is still mainly at the tax payers' experience. It's something like £600K to get to consultant level. They also have a defined career path, handsome pension and a good level of prestige that comes with the job.

A large part of the current GP crisis stems from Labour's decision to massively raise the pay of doctors from their already high levels back in the noughties. I have two GP friends who, following this, decided to work part time, one for 3 days a week and the other 4. (Yes they are now confirmed Labour supporters). I remember being incredibly envious at the time. In my current GP practice at least 75% of GPs are not available on all days.
There are other factors of course, but it's no surprise that it takes 3 weeks to see a GP.
That waiting time would be considerably reduced if all GPs were forced to work a 5 day week.

Personally I would like to see the end of the current organisation of the NHS (it should move more towards a European, not an American model, from its current Soviet model**). As the Tories know this will have to be done on the sly otherwise thickos who believe unlimited amounts of government money can be sunk into a black hole will squeal - one way would be to get more private GP practices.

**You know something is badly wrong when the NHS is the 3rd largest employer in the world after the Chinese army and the Indian Railways - all for a small island in the Atlantic.

[sirja]

Does Romania export doctors and nurses to cover the people that come to the UK?

I like and agree with Alison Pearson in the Torygraph today. This is about schools for children so I doubt whether the average CUKer will have had the time or inclination to procreate

Our schools and hospitals simply cannot cope with the influx of migrants - that's why we must leave the EU - Telegraph


With maternity units in meltdown and 90,000 children set to lose out on their first choice of school, it's clear that the risk to our families and communities will rise if we vote to stay in Europe

This morning, I head to Westminster to make a speech in favour of Brexit at Voices for Britain. It’s not the kind of thing I normally do but, over the past fortnight, we’ve been hearing a lot about the risk to the economy if we leave, but almost nothing about the risk to families and communities if we stay.
This week, to take just one example, is when kids find out which secondary school they’ll be going to. An exciting time but also, for too many, a bitterly disappointing one. One in six schools has too many pupils.
In 2015, 84,000 pupils missed out on their first choice. This year, it’s set to be around 90,000. Oh, and England is short of 250,000 primary school places. Plus, they reckon we will need a staggering 880,000 extra school places by 2023.

I know it’s considered rather impolite to say that it’s due to immigration, but the National Audit Office says it is and that’s borne out if you take somewhere like Peterborough, the third fastest-growing place in the UK. In just five years, the city’s primary school population has increased by 24 per cent, caused by the influx of EU migrants. The birth rate is higher among foreign mothers with one quarter of Britain’s babies being born to them, the largest number coming from Poland.

This week, children will find out what secondary school they got into. Unsurprisingly, maternity units are in meltdown. A young couple I know turned up at one when the mum-to-be was in labour and were told, “Sorry, we’re full.” Now, the Government is encouraging women to have home births, bribing them with £3,000 vouchers and pretending it’s a marvellous option, instead of a cheap fix.
The Prime Minister insists that we will be safer if we stay in the EU. Well, not if you’re a pregnant women, Mr Cameron.
With the fastest-growing population in Europe, we are unable to provide proper care and facilities for the women and children who are here already. It’s outrageous.
If we remain in the EU, which gives us no choice but to accept tens of thousands of migrants a year, then our schools and our hospitals will simply not be able to cope. As it says on the door of the maternity unit: Sorry, we’re full.

Very valid points, I think most people with young families have experienced this pressure in one form of the other. However my fear is that even with Brexit we won't really solve anything. I just can't see the EU agreeing to it in any negotiations. On this side the govt would also come under massive pressure from big business (The main beneficiary of cheap migrant labor) This is why I really fear Brexit. I think if we vote out(Which I am leaning to) we'll just end up with a settlement which is more or less what we have know, without having a seat at the table. Yes I know people say 'We will demand this and demand that' but in reality we must bear in mind that for many in Europe, the EU is and has always been a political project. They will fight like mad to make sure the deal the UK gets is one that does not encourage any other member to leave. I simply can't see how the French in particular would sign of any deal that in any way gives the UK an advantage weather it's do with migration of any other aspect of our relationship with Europe.

[sasguru]

Very valid points, I think most people with young families have experienced this pressure in one form of the other. However my fear is that even with Brexit we won't really solve anything. I just can't see the EU agreeing to it in any negotiations. On this side the govt would also come under massive pressure from big business (The main beneficiary of cheap migrant labor) This is why I really fear Brexit. I think if we vote out(Which I am leaning to) we'll just end up with a settlement which is more or less what we have know, without having a seat at the table. Yes I know people say 'We will demand this and demand that' but in reality we must bear in mind that for many in Europe, the EU is and has always been a political project. They will fight like mad to make sure the deal the UK gets is one that does not encourage any other member to leave. I simply can't see how the French in particular would sign of any deal that in any way gives the UK an advantage weather it's do with migration of any other aspect of our relationship with Europe.

Probably the most sensible post on this thread (apart from mine of course).
Problem is most of the Brexiteers have a position based on emotion rather than reality.

[The_Equalizer]

Very valid points, I think most people with young families have experienced this pressure in one form of the other. However my fear is that even with Brexit we won't really solve anything. I just can't see the EU agreeing to it in any negotiations. On this side the govt would also come under massive pressure from big business (The main beneficiary of cheap migrant labor) This is why I really fear Brexit. I think if we vote out(Which I am leaning to) we'll just end up with a settlement which is more or less what we have know, without having a seat at the table. Yes I know people say 'We will demand this and demand that' but in reality we must bear in mind that for many in Europe, the EU is and has always been a political project. They will fight like mad to make sure the deal the UK gets is one that does not encourage any other member to leave. I simply can't see how the French in particular would sign of any deal that in any way gives the UK an advantage weather it's do with migration of any other aspect of our relationship with Europe.

What's that saying, hmmm, with friends like these...

Is the next arguement that we should be thankful we're not being treated like Greece?

[sirja]

Probably the most sensible post on this thread (apart from mine of course).
Problem is most of the Brexiteers have a position based on emotion rather than reality.

Thank you sir!

[sirja]

What's that saying, hmmm, with friends like these...

Is the next arguement that we should be thankful we're not being treated like Greece?

All I am saying is we need to think very very carefully on this. It's the biggest vote many of us will be making in our lifetime. I may yet still vote out, but if I do it's going to be on the back of some deep research and analysis, and not just raw anti EU emotion

[DodgyAgent]

Very valid points, I think most people with young families have experienced this pressure in one form of the other. However my fear is that even with Brexit we won't really solve anything. I just can't see the EU agreeing to it in any negotiations. On this side the govt would also come under massive pressure from big business (The main beneficiary of cheap migrant labor) This is why I really fear Brexit. I think if we vote out(Which I am leaning to) we'll just end up with a settlement which is more or less what we have know, without having a seat at the table. Yes I know people say 'We will demand this and demand that' but in reality we must bear in mind that for many in Europe, the EU is and has always been a political project. They will fight like mad to make sure the deal the UK gets is one that does not encourage any other member to leave. I simply can't see how the French in particular would sign of any deal that in any way gives the UK an advantage weather it's do with migration of any other aspect of our relationship with Europe.

If we remain in the EU this situation will only get worse. I do not buy this "seat at the table" cliche. We have had enough time with this eat to further and protect our own position and it has got us nowhere. In ten years it will be even more difficult to change things. The EU government needs to be stopped in its tracks from becoming an Orwellian nightmare of a superstate now. The uK has huge bargaining powers anyway and it will soon recover and in so doing it will undermine the EU superstate to the relief of the citizens of the EU. The statists and the corporatists want to maintain the status quo which in itself is enough of a worry.

[BlasterBates]

A lot of voters are worried about the pound

Poll shows value of pound a big factor in Brexit vote | Reuters

Swiss bank UBS warned this week that the pound could fall to parity with the euro if Britain votes to leave the European Union.

i.e. billions of pounds being wiped off the value of people's assets, as the Leave campaign "mouths off" over Europe without a viable alternative plan

[The_Equalizer]

A lot of voters are worried about the pound

Poll shows value of pound a big factor in Brexit vote | Reuters


i.e. billions of pounds being wiped off the value of people's assets, as the Leave campaign "mouths off" over Europe without a viable alternative plan

How are assets worth less? Your house will still be the same value in pounds, it just would be less expensive for a overseas buyer. Other assets, such as gold, are priced in USD. If you bought goods made overseas, or priced in another currency, then they would be more expensive. More to the point, you are assuming that the pound would drop and stay low. It's trading 1.29 against the Euro. In 2009 it was near parity.