In or Out?

[jamesbrown]

Believe me I'm in favour of a Brexit.

It will mean biggest transfer of wealth between two regions for decades as the pound and house prices in the UK crash.

Eurozone dwellers will be able to retire 2 years earlier if they move to Britain and the UK population will have voted to work a little bit longer for quite a bit less

That will effectively end up in our pockets.

Well, house prices need to correct, frankly. This argument is about our long-term prospects, not about popping bubbles in the short-term. Certainly, the pound would take a hit, and probably house prices too. They would recover, but we'd have to begin to live within our means, forcibly so. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. In any case, this is a generational decision, not a decision about markets and instant reactions, which would undoubtedly be negative in the short-term. Within the EU, we'd have a long, slow and certain demise, and the markets can live with that Outside, we'd have a rapid demise in the short-term, but much brighter prospects in the long-term, assuming the Tories were of a mind to exploit it (vs. wallow).

[seanraaron]

This argument is about our long-term prospects, not about popping bubbles in the short-term. Certainly, the pound would take a hit, and probably house prices too. They would recover, but we'd have to begin to live within our means, forcibly so.

Why would they recover? Are the fundamentals of the economy that sound that it's a sure thing? And people lampooned the Scots who wanted independence...

[DodgyAgent]

Why would they recover? Are the fundamentals of the economy that sound that it's a sure thing? And people lampooned the Scots who wanted independence...

Just as economies recover all the time idiot

[seanraaron]

Just as economies recover all the time idiot

Riiight, civilisations NEVER collapse...

[DodgyAgent]

Riiight, civilisations NEVER collapse...

Even countries like Argentina recover from defaulting creditors. Greece would do the same if it were to leave the EURO and if you check on the UK and bothered to study economic cycles you will see that the Uk does the same. if you want o see how a "civilisation" collapses then I suggest you take a look at the Soviet Union which was a very similar structure to the European Union. The difference is that the EU is taking over through stealthy and economics whereas at least the Russians were honest enough to use tanks.

[DodgyAgent]

Former Soviet Dissident Warns For EU Dictatorship | The Brussels Journal

Vladimir Bukovsky: I am referrring to structures, to certain ideologies being instilled, to the plans, the direction, the inevitable expansion, the obliteration of nations, which was the purpose of the Soviet Union. Most people do not understand this. They do not know it, but we do because we were raised in the Soviet Union where we had to study the Soviet ideology in school and at university. The ultimate purpose of the Soviet Union was to create a new historic entity, the Soviet people, all around the globe. The same is true in the EU today. They are trying to create a new people. They call this people “Europeans”, whatever that means.

According to Communist doctrine as well as to many forms of Socialist thinking, the state, the national state, is supposed to wither away. In Russia, however, the opposite happened. Instead of withering away the Soviet state became a very powerful state, but the nationalities were obliterated. But when the time of the Soviet collapse came these suppressed feelings of national identity came bouncing back and they nearly destroyed the country. It was so frightening.

PB: Do you think the same thing can happen when the European Union collapses?

VB: Absolutely, you can press a spring only that much, and the human psyche is very resilient you know. You can press it, you can press it, but don’t forget it is still accumulating a power to rebound. It is like a spring and it always goes to overshoot.

PB: But all these countries that joined the European Union did so voluntarily.

VB: No, they did not. Look at Denmark which voted against the Maastricht treaty twice. Look at Ireland [which voted against the Nice treaty]. Look at many other countries, they are under enormous pressure. It is almost blackmail. Switzerland was forced to vote five times in a referendum. All five times they have rejected it, but who knows what will happen the sixth time, the seventh time. It is always the same thing. It is a trick for idiots. The people have to vote in referendums until the people vote the way that is wanted. Then they have to stop voting. Why stop? Let us continue voting. The European Union is what Americans would call a shotgun marriage.

PB: What do you think young people should do about the European Union? What should they insist on, to democratize the institution or just abolish it?

VB: I think that the European Union, like the Soviet Union, cannot be democratized. Gorbachev tried to democratize it and it blew up. This kind of structures cannot be democratized.

PB: But we have a European Parliament which is chosen by the people.

VB: The European Parliament is elected on the basis of proportional representation, which is not true representation. And what does it vote on? The percentage of fat in yoghurt, that kind of thing. It is ridiculous. It is given the task of the Supreme Soviet. The average MP can speak for six minutes per year in the Chamber. That is not a real parliament.

[BrilloPad]

Well, house prices need to correct, frankly. This argument is about our long-term prospects, not about popping bubbles in the short-term. Certainly, the pound would take a hit, and probably house prices too. They would recover, but we'd have to begin to live within our means, forcibly so. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. In any case, this is a generational decision, not a decision about markets and instant reactions, which would undoubtedly be negative in the short-term. Within the EU, we'd have a long, slow and certain demise, and the markets can live with that Outside, we'd have a rapid demise in the short-term, but much brighter prospects in the long-term, assuming the Tories were of a mind to exploit it (vs. wallow).

Only London house prices need to correct.

This is not just about prosperity. It is about the sort of country the UK wants to become. And a lot of people are fed up with an increasing population. Which only benefits the top 1%. Hence UKIP got 12% of the vote. Its not xenophobia. Just reality.

Prosperity wise I believe 99% of the UK would be better off out of the EU.

[BrilloPad]

Even countries like Argentina recover from defaulting creditors. Greece would do the same if it were to leave the EURO and if you check on the UK and bothered to study economic cycles you will see that the Uk does the same. if you want o see how a "civilisation" collapses then I suggest you take a look at the Soviet Union which was a very similar structure to the European Union. The difference is that the EU is taking over through stealthy and economics whereas at least the Russians were honest enough to use tanks.

Anyone any idea how Greece is doing now? Are we still on for the next crisis in 2018?

[DodgyAgent]

Anyone any idea how Greece is doing now? Are we still on for the next crisis in 2018?

I think these boys are still going strong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2NOfOeSX4k

[BlasterBates]

Well, house prices need to correct, frankly. This argument is about our long-term prospects, not about popping bubbles in the short-term. Certainly, the pound would take a hit, and probably house prices too. They would recover, but we'd have to begin to live within our means, forcibly so. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. In any case, this is a generational decision, not a decision about markets and instant reactions, which would undoubtedly be negative in the short-term. Within the EU, we'd have a long, slow and certain demise, and the markets can live with that Outside, we'd have a rapid demise in the short-term, but much brighter prospects in the long-term, assuming the Tories were of a mind to exploit it (vs. wallow).

Well all our trade agreements are with the EU so when we leave the EU we lose all our trade agreements with every other country, this would be a complete economic disaster. One option would be to join EFTA which would mean signing up to all the EU regulations, allowing the free movement of EU nationals into the UK.

Either you're in the EU with a vote or you're in the EU without a vote.

Take your choice