Tory voters

[PurpleGorilla]

Yes, there are many that went to university that do end up earning mediocre or better salaries. However, they are in many ways in much safer jobs than contracting.

While there are many permies working hard, a lot of them are too gutless to try contracting for themselves or move even slightly out of their comfort zones. I get that it's nice to have the safety net of permie benefits such as sick pay, redundancy (I know, this can be crap), a pension, holidays and indeed just a regular pay cheque. We don't all want to work in that way and those that have the gumption and are prepared to take the risk should be rewarded for adding liquidity to the resourcing market and not completely shafted someone thinks they may be getting ahead.

I scrimped and saved the seed fund to start contracting. Lots of sheeple out there don't have the dedication needed to save. And live hand to mouth. So will never take the risk to contract.

[d000hg]

Yes, there are many that went to university that do end up earning mediocre or better salaries. However, they are in many ways in much safer jobs than contracting.

While there are many permies working hard, a lot of them are too gutless to try contracting for themselves or move even slightly out of their comfort zones. I get that it's nice to have the safety net of permie benefits such as sick pay, redundancy (I know, this can be crap), a pension, holidays and indeed just a regular pay cheque. We don't all want to work in that way and those that have the gumption and are prepared to take the risk should be rewarded for adding liquidity to the resourcing market and not completely shafted someone thinks they may be getting ahead.

While it's nice to feel better than them, I don't think 'gutless' is an accurate word. They just don't WANT to. They want to provide for their family and be able to retire in moderate comfort. You could call it a lack of ambition or being conservative, but making them out as being in any way inferior is silly. They might be getting home at 5.15 in the evening and talking about "that poor chap who's so obsessed with earning money as a contractor, he lives in Travel Lodge and never sees his kids".

[NibblyPig]

I scrimped and saved the seed fund to start contracting. Lots of sheeple out there don't have the dedication needed to save. And live hand to mouth. So will never take the risk to contract.

It's not even contracting, I started my career 6 years ago and there are still people working at the same permie job I started at when I was earning about 16k. They're earning ~23k now, and are too scared to leave and seek out something out of their comfort zone, and not inclined to work harder in their spare time to learn new stuff. I've worked in 5 permie roles since then, before starting contracting earlier this year.

Outside of people I've worked with, I have a lot of friends who can only do stuff if it's after payday otherwise they're broke. I don't know how people can live like that. If I was broke I would probably save up a buffer of money then adjust my living so my money lasts through the month. Or work harder to get a better job or skills.

They want to provide for their family and be able to retire in moderate comfort.

I think my point that started all this was that some people who don't want to work really hard want to have their cake and eat it by being able to buy a house for example, or lower down the scale, have their life and their 7 kids lives subsidised by the taxpayer.

[AtW]

Would AtW ?

No.

[ShandyDrinker]

While it's nice to feel better than them, I don't think 'gutless' is an accurate word. They just don't WANT to. They want to provide for their family and be able to retire in moderate comfort. You could call it a lack of ambition or being conservative, but making them out as being in any way inferior is silly. They might be getting home at 5.15 in the evening and talking about "that poor chap who's so obsessed with earning money as a contractor, he lives in Travel Lodge and never sees his kids".

At no point have I said I think I'm better than or even feel superior in any way. Perhaps gutless is too strong. However, if they don't want to, they shouldn't begrudge anyone who does.

I choose to do what I do as I enjoy the flexibility, challenge and yes, the greater pay for the greater risk. What I believe is inequitable about everything the Tories (and previously Labour) are doing with IR35 is that they make no bones about levelling the playing field between permies and contractors because of the perceived advantages contractors are getting, without taking any account of the disadvantages of contracting.

[AtW]

David Cameron hasn’t the faintest idea how deep his cuts go. This letter proves it

It's part of his job not to have any idea so that he won't knowingly lie to Parliament, which is a no-no for a Prime Minister.

[d000hg]

At no point have I said I think I'm better than or even feel superior in any way. Perhaps gutless is too strong. However, if they don't want to, they shouldn't begrudge anyone who does.

I choose to do what I do as I enjoy the flexibility, challenge and yes, the greater pay for the greater risk. What I believe is inequitable about everything the Tories (and previously Labour) are doing with IR35 is that they make no bones about levelling the playing field between permies and contractors because of the perceived advantages contractors are getting, without taking any account of the disadvantages of contracting.

IR35 isn't about levelling the playing field in terms of your take-home, it's about preventing you avoiding tax and paying less % than permies do on a much lower income.

Except it's broken due to punitive NI...

[OwlHoot]

IR35 isn't about levelling the playing field in terms of your take-home, it's about preventing you avoiding tax and paying less % than permies do on a much lower income.

Except it's broken due to punitive NI...

Why is it you always seem to want to defend the status quo, even when this is indefensible?

[Zero Liability]

At no point have I said I think I'm better than or even feel superior in any way. Perhaps gutless is too strong. However, if they don't want to, they shouldn't begrudge anyone who does.

I choose to do what I do as I enjoy the flexibility, challenge and yes, the greater pay for the greater risk. What I believe is inequitable about everything the Tories (and previously Labour) are doing with IR35 is that they make no bones about levelling the playing field between permies and contractors because of the perceived advantages contractors are getting, without taking any account of the disadvantages of contracting.

I do think permies - especially those in the 40% band - are over-taxed (even more so when including fudges like NI), but that's a consequence of successive governments trying to bribe all and sundry and then convincing the taxpayer that it's their problem and they must now cough up. Value for money doesn't even come into the equation, for some reason. Part of the problem is that their prioritisation of where to cut (where it's not just cuts in spending growth rates) seems to be where it will be most visible and painful, perhaps so as to avoid further cuts to spending items of concern to various lobbyists.

In answer to the OP, no I won't be voting for them, I never have and won't be in the future, either. I'd like a genuine free enterprise option, but they're not it.

[LondonManc]

Too soon to vote any way at the moment.

This next election could be the biggest abstention ever - does there have to be a certain percentage turnout for the election to be classed as legal?

The problem is at the moment neither party offer a decent solution to the country's problems. We're propping up more and more people (as per the social spend budget) and there is less and less cash flowing into government pockets.

Mauve Monkey is right, the boomers and their final salary pensions will kill a lot off, along with them generally shuffling off their mortal coils far later than they should do. Tories need to find this final salary money from somewhere to pay for the boomer vote at the next two elections. Meanwhile, the genuine grafters have nobody to vote for. We need the general infrastructure that a socialist government would back but a genuine capitalist market on top of that, rather than some non-competitive semi-communist third-world headed lead balloon that we'd end up with Komrade Korbyn. Lib Dems are busy contemplating their navels and with the right policies and propaganda, UKIP could make some serious ground in the next election.

There's a gap in the market for a good right-wing, non-racist party to appreciate that a good infrastructure build with plenty of employment would potentially become self-funding through tax income from the workers, in addition to taking them off the social support budget.

Get the railway infrastructure up to scratch with a rail-freight network that would take HGVs off the road. That in turn would reduce damage to motorways and reduce congestion on them. Extend the M6 Toll up from Cannock to the M56 with a single major drop-off junction at the A500 near Stoke. Look at the speed limit and shove it. On longer stretches of motorway, up it to 80mph. A trial on the M6 from the M55 to Lancaster for example to see what happens. Modern cars are capable of higher speeds and improved breaking distances - perhaps have a ten-year age limit or some other measure to indicate what cars are allowed to do 80.

Continue looking at HS2, but also look in the meantime at the feasibility of running a dedicated priority Virgin Pendalino from Euston to Manchester non-stop. It currently runs at 2hr 7mins with 3-4 stops; treat it like Gordon on the Isle of Sodor and have it as the mainline priority with other trains getting out of its way and you're looking at a train that can do 125mph no problem, meaning that it could do Euston to Manchester in about 1hr 38min, eventually dropping to 1hr 8mins for HS2.

So much could be done to improve the rest of the country but we've got a Westminster bubble to protect so unfortunately it's not happening.