Gay Cakes

[vetran]

they were quite obviously targeted by the Gay Rights movement. Just as the B&B owners were.

Now the Baker's religion doesn't agree with the customers political or moral stance on this. Should we force the Customers to go to Mass and if they refuse prosecute them as bigots?

[Ticktock]

There is a basic factor to consider here.
A business may refuse to provide their services to any customer for any reason. Unless that reason happens to be one of a handful.

I can say "I'm not making you a cake because I don't like blondes" and that's fine.
I can't say "I'm not making you a cake because I don't like black people" and that's not.

The question is at what point do we say businesses are no longer allowed to refuse to sell their services to certain customers? At what point do we rely on the market to regulate, on consumers to rise up and say "we don't support the attitude of this business and will boycott them"?

[unixman]

There is a difference between tolerating something and approving of it. This needs to be acknowledged in the way the regulations are applied. Morally and legally. Otherwise, the same regulations could be used to destructive effect in all kinds of situations. Unfortunately, there are those who think that they can use the law to compel citizens to hold a given view. That's where it all goes wrong, and turns sensible tolerance (of X) into extreme intolerance (of disagreeing with X).

[d000hg]

It's not even that they didn't want to serve gay people, they just refused to make a "gay cake". Is the fact the customer was gay the issue... if they refused to make ME a "gay cake" would that be OK since I'm not gay?

[xoggoth]

The idea that the rights and freedoms of one person or one group should be considered in isolation from everybody else's is an absurdity in an overcrowded world. We need to balance individual freedoms against the consequences for others and society as a whole.

If somebody was campaigning against gays or trying to exclude them from jobs that should be unacceptable but just refusing to make a cake with a political slogan on it is reasonable exercise of individual rights. After all, they could have just taken the job to another baker and any consequences for them were utterly trivial. All their legal action has done is to increase homophobia.

Hard to be sure but I suspect a lot of these attitudes and discrimination laws are counter productive. We are always being told that ethnic minorities face discrimination in looking for jobs but nobody asks the potential employers the reasons. I suspect in many cases it is not due to racism but the fear of being accused of discrimination if they need to take action if he/she proves unsatisfactory.

[vetran]

hmm....

Ashers Baking Company GUILTY of discrimination over 'Bert and Ernie' gay cake | Daily Mail Online

Members of the McArthur family, who employ up to 80 people across six branches that deliver throughout the UK and Ireland, have maintained throughout the legal case that they are opposed to gay marriage on religious grounds.

Karen McArthur, who founded Ashers with her husband Colin, said she initially accepted the cake order to avoid a confrontation but, as a born-again Christian knew in her heart that she could not fulfil the request.

After discussing the issue with her husband and son Daniel, she telephoned Mr Lee and informed him the cake would not be made.

In an earlier court hearing, Mr Lee told how he was left 'shocked' and in 'disbelief' when he was told his cake order would not be processed.

'It made me feel I'm not worthy, a lesser person and to me that was wrong,' he said.

The judge told the court that she believed if a heterosexual person had ordered a cake with graphics promoting 'heterosexual marriage' or simply 'marriage', the order would have been fulfilled.

'I have no doubt that such a cake would have been provided. It is the word gay that the defendants took exception to,' said Judge Brownlie.

She found that Mr Lee had been treated 'less favourably' contrary to the law.

The Equality Commission had initially asked for the bakery on Belfast's Royal Avenue to acknowledge it had breached legislation and offer 'modest' damages to the customer.

When Ashers refused, the publicly-funded watchdog proceeded with the legal challenge on grounds that Ashers had discriminated against the customer on grounds of sexual orientation.

[Netraider]

Violence is spreading Linky

[d000hg]

I wonder what the court would make of an argument "we'd risk boycott/loss of business from religious customers if we DID make such a cake"?

[meridian]

Or a request to a Muslim baker to make a cake with the message "the only true God is the Christian God", will the Equality Commission rule discrimination of they refuse?

[Batcher]

I wonder what the court would make of an argument "we'd risk boycott/loss of business from religious customers if we DID make such a cake"?

How would they find out though? If you order a cake from a bakers it's normally all baked & decorated in the back of the shop. You pick it up already boxed so none of the front of shop customers would see it.

Like going into Greggs and asking for two steak bakes but you want to check first that they haven't baked any gay cakes or the deal is off.