The Debate

[d000hg]

The fact is there will always be poverty in the UK and is not just to do with low wage jobs etc etc.

It is down to the fact some people are simple incapable of leading a life where they can support themselves.

And blaming it on politicians/the rich/the middle class is just fookin stupid as the issue is not within politics or money but down to human beings being human.

Yes and that's one reason we have the Welfare State, which is supposed to ensure people are supported. FBs are a politically hot topic because their rapid increase is seen as a sign of a broken benefits system - either due to mismanagement, overly severe cuts, or whatever argument you want to make. The main fuss is that IF the government buys into a Welfare State (your personal views are irrelevant) then they shouldn't be having to rely on charities to patch the cracks. Every penny that the public/charity spend on food for food bank is a penny the government isn't having to spend.

[Batcher]

I thought they should, obviously I underestimated the stupidity of pensioners

Or the power of the establishment to fix the postal vote

[minestrone]

Yes and that's one reason we have the Welfare State, which is supposed to ensure people are supported. FBs are a politically hot topic because their rapid increase is seen as a sign of a broken benefits system - either due to mismanagement, overly severe cuts, or whatever argument you want to make. The main fuss is that IF the government buys into a Welfare State (your personal views are irrelevant) then they shouldn't be having to rely on charities to patch the cracks. Every penny that the public/charity spend on food for food bank is a penny the government isn't having to spend.

We spend about 100 billion on the welfare state, (removing state pensions).

That is about 15% roughly of GDP. So 15% of my, and your, taxation has to go to the welfare state.

I don't want to be lectured on what I don't give to the welfare state, I want the welfared state to once say thanks for my continual sacrifices I make for them.

[Batcher]

I was impressed how Milliband came across compared to what I expected, but Cameron comes across as more substantial and measured.

Paxman was definitely meaner on Ed - not so much the nature of the questions but the cross-talk, interruptions and argument, Cameron was allowed more time to answer questions. Perhaps Cameron's just better at dealing with Paxman, but it seemed ike he had it in for Milliband to me.

I wondered how much they knew about the questions in advance because Dave particularly seemed very polished.

Paxman is a confirmed Tory though Jeremy Paxman: I'm a one-nation Tory and 'Newsnight' is made by 13-year-olds - People - News - The Independent

Dave wasn't polished when he was asked about working on a zero-hour contract and said he had answered the question when he hadn't.

[Batcher]

Foodbanks were a political football in the referendum.

As soon as you said you were voting no someone would be screaming "YOU ARE THE ROOT CAUSE OF STARVING CHILDREN" in your face.

You're making stuff up again.

[d000hg]

We spend about 100 billion on the welfare state, (removing state pensions).

That is about 15% roughly of GDP. So 15% of my, and your, taxation has to go to the welfare state.

I don't want to be lectured on what I don't give to the welfare state, I want the welfared state to once say thanks for my continual sacrifices I make for them.

Are you going to thank England for the continual sacrifices we make to keep Scotland afloat?

We don't have the welfare state to get thanks from those we help. We help them because it's the right thing to do. But you missed the entire argument anyway. If the welfare state isn't providing food and charities have to supplement it, then it's not working as designed.

Dave wasn't polished when he was asked about working on a zero-hour contract and said he had answered the question when he hadn't.

It WAS a stupid question - he doesn't require an income at all probably - but I don't know why he dithered on it. He DID eventually answer but it didn't seem like a question he should've been so wary of.

[minestrone]

Are you going to thank England for the continual sacrifices we make to keep Scotland afloat?

England can't even keep England afloat. 2 years in about 50 the UK has made a surplus.

So I am glad we have a Conservative government that is committed to making a surplus each year no mater what the left say.

[MicrosoftBob]

Sanctions aren't helping, they're rather a blunt instrument, the benefits system itself isn't fit for purpose either

Rather than having a benefits system that makes the state subsidise multinationals and allow them to pay subsistence wages, maybe the system itself needs to change

[d000hg]

England can't even keep England afloat. 2 years in about 50 the UK has made a surplus.

Perhaps that's because the Scots keep leeching off us

[Batcher]

Perhaps that's because the Scots keep leeching off us

Ok, I would just like to say a big thanks from all of the Scottish people (and the other nationals who just live and work in Scotland) who benefit from your very kind generosity.