Socialist tax efficiency

[vwdan]

I happen to believe that IT contractors are legitimate businesses. Others clearly do not otherwise the IR35 debate would have ended. the point I am making is that IT contractors arrange their affairs in order to minimise their tax liabilities. Some call this tax avoidance. So when someone else does the same such as these film partnership "investments" as long as it is legal we have no business in criticising those who seek to exploit these tax loopholes.
I rather think that those who get so morally outraged about it are the curtain twitcher "what's he getting?" types. Fine if you are a PAYE monkey with no access to any tax "saving" schemes but to hear outrage from IT contractors can only be described as humbug

But this is the bit I don't get - okay, so I've got a Ltd company but there's no scheme here. There's no real grey area (Except IR35, which like I say I don't consider myself a target for) - I operate my Ltd exactly as described in plain text on the HMRC websites. No cleverness, no fancy accounting, no investments, no loans - just income, expenses (Again, as per HMRC) tax, salary and dividends.

I'm not dense enough to not get where you're coming from, but I do strongly disagree - if we are talking in terms of shades of grey mine is pretty much white compared to many who are indistinguishable between black and I don't think it's hard to see what's pissing people off.

[FatLazyContractor]

But this is the bit I don't get - okay, so I've got a Ltd company but there's no scheme here. There's no real grey area (Except IR35, which like I say I don't consider myself a target for) - I operate my Ltd exactly as described in plain text on the HMRC websites. No cleverness, no fancy accounting, no investments, no loans - just income, expenses (Again, as per HMRC) tax, salary and dividends.

I'm not dense enough to not get where you're coming from, but I do strongly disagree - if we are talking in terms of shades of grey mine is pretty much white compared to many who are indistinguishable between black and I don't think it's hard to see what's pissing people off.

What I really seriously don't understand is the reason to:
- Take DA seriously
- Argue with him/her/it.

[Jog On]

I blame the whole mess on HMRC and the government.

How simple and easy would it be to clear it all up by just changing the law so there is paying tax and tax evasion.

What you do is either legal or illegal - simples...

But they won't - because that would mean their mates would be caught in the same net which obviously cannot be allowed to happen. All tax payers are equal but some are more equal than others.

So they come up with "legal avoidance" and try and play a moral high ground card - really?

Tax avoiders are morally indefensible - but some tax avoiders are less morally indefensible than others.

I say good luck trying to enforce something based on moral high ground - especially this government (and any other for that matter).

They need to start spending a bit less on champagne in the House of Lords and nuclear weapons and maybe pay nurses a bit more before even hinting about any kind of moral high ground.

They should lead by example as well if they are to be taken at all seriously.

Tony Blair cuts his tax bill despite another bumper year - Telegraph

Just my view - now think I'll get back to my £12 lunch my LTD has so generously forked out for today

[DodgyAgent]

But this is the bit I don't get - okay, so I've got a Ltd company but there's no scheme here. There's no real grey area (Except IR35, which like I say I don't consider myself a target for) - I operate my Ltd exactly as described in plain text on the HMRC websites. No cleverness, no fancy accounting, no investments, no loans - just income, expenses (Again, as per HMRC) tax, salary and dividends.

I'm not dense enough to not get where you're coming from, but I do strongly disagree - if we are talking in terms of shades of grey mine is pretty much white compared to many who are indistinguishable between black and I don't think it's hard to see what's pissing people off.

The fact that you operate within the sphere of IR35 means that your financial arrangements are in doubt by at least HMRC. You may think the sanctity of how you minimise tax is fine but not everyone agrees. The tax affairs of others may be more complex than your own and may be more of a risk in terms of their legality but until they are deemed illegal they are as legitimate as your own. If you are following the labour/your narrative which is that tax avoidance is judged according to who you are and how much you earn then just put your hand up and admit that you are a sanctimonious jerk with a chip on his shoulder.

If you want to argue that some tax avoidance schemes are fine but others are not - irrespective of what the law says then perhaps you could draw the line exactly where this should be. (I am sure the Govt & HMRC would love to know).

On the other hand I believe that we are taxed far too much anyway and that the tax system is over complex. Everything should be done to force as many unintended consequences of ridiculous tax laws to cause problems for the government.

[Jog On]

I believe that we are taxed far too much anyway and that the tax system is over complex. Everything should be done to force as many unintended consequences of ridiculous tax laws to cause problems for the government.

I 100% agree with this. I also believe that the tax system is intentionally over complex to facilitate selective tax avoidance.

[eek]

I 100% agree with this. I also believe that the tax system is intentionally over complex to facilitate selective tax avoidance.

I think its over complex because

1) no one is brave enough to fix it
2) fixing it will take longer than 5 years so no government has the ability to do it...

[DodgyAgent]

I think its over complex because

1) no one is brave enough to fix it
2) fixing it will take longer than 5 years so no government has the ability to do it...

Which is why we are morally obliged to make it fail

[SimonMac]

I was expecting the paradox to cause some kind of donnie-darko world-ending rift in the space-time continuum. Never mind.

People are agreeing with DA, that's happening already!

He's an agent therefore he doesn't read. He scans for keywords

POTD

[FatLazyContractor]

Which is why we are morally obliged to make it fall

FTFY

[eek]

He's an agent therefore he doesn't read. He scans for keywords

scans implies a skill set and reading comprehension age well beyond the average agent....