Good job they will pay our pensions.

[DodgyAgent]

The West isn't subsidising anything.

Developing countries have just stopped having the majority of their assets stolen from them by the West without payment.

OK I have read something into that statement that was probably not intended. However the west is not fuelling population growth except through its immigrants. They are are spilling from abroad in search of a civilised country such as the UK that we have built and fought for and yet they continue to multiply out of control.

We indirectly subsidise this population growth by making the world safe and exporting democracy, technology and policies abroad which have the effect only of boosting population growth.

As for the comment about taking from these countries this is the guilt mantra that the left use to justify their condescending position about how they view poorer nations. Their guilt has been reflected by the UKs open border immigration system and the creation of third world ghettos in the UK under the guise of multiculturalism.

It is not the loss of their natural or other resources that has kept countries like Ethiopia, India and Pakistan impoverished. And if you want to explain also how these countries would have been better off without the influence of the West then go ahead and argue it. We have nothing to feel guilty about.

[darmstadt]

so if the cat has kittens in my house they aren't really kittens they are little human beings? Oh is that straw I smell?

If measuring the effects of something you have to measure against what would happen if the thing hadn't been there.

The Children of immigrants are still part of the immigration debate. Again they have been spun so the impact of a disastrous policy seems less than they really were.

So by that argument many British people are immigrants as their parents were or do we go back further? For example, Nigel Farrage's grandmother, who was born Gladys Schrod (good Germanic name), is descended from German immigrants, Winston Churchill who's grandfather was an American of French descent, Helen Mirren who's parents were Russian and so on. Quite probably/possibly if hadn't been for immigrants you might not be here...

[DodgyAgent]

So by that argument many British people are immigrants as their parents were or do we go back further? For example, Nigel Farrage's grandmother, who was born Gladys Schrod (good Germanic name), is descended from German immigrants, Winston Churchill who's grandfather was an American of French descent, Helen Mirren who's parents were Russian and so on. Quite probably/possibly if hadn't been for immigrants you might not be here...

Which completely misses the point.

[SueEllen]

OK I have read something into that statement that was probably not intended. However the west is not fuelling population growth except through its immigrants. They are are spilling from abroad in search of a civilised country such as the UK that we have built and fought for and yet they continue to multiply out of control.

We indirectly subsidise this population growth by making the world safe and exporting democracy, technology and policies abroad which have the effect only of boosting population growth.

You mean as part of the UK's colonialist legacy these things were dumped on some countries whether they wanted them or not?

As for the comment about taking from these countries this is the guilt mantra that the left use to justify their condescending position about how they view poorer nations. Their guilt has been reflected by the UKs open border immigration system and the creation of third world ghettos in the UK under the guise of multiculturalism.

What guilt? You feel guilty about history? I don't.

The only foreigners the borders are open to are those from the EU where the agreement is reciprocal. The fact that you don't want to take advantage of this is up to you. Others have done.

All other non-EU immigrants have to prove they have a good reason to be in the UK. This is normally either to come on holiday, as a student or as a worker on the approved list. The fact that the Home Office is completely useless about policing the policies its government has put in place isn't the immigrants fault.

It is not the loss of their natural or other resources that has kept countries like Ethiopia, India and Pakistan impoverished. And if you want to explain also how these countries would have been better off without the influence of the West then go ahead and argue it. We have nothing to feel guilty about.

I have no idea. However you are presuming that before India and what is now Pakistan were colonised by the British they didn't trade and share knowledge with other countries.

You know if you were writing on this board in the 18th Century you would be moaning about immigrants...

[vetran]

So by that argument many British people are immigrants as their parents were or do we go back further? For example, Nigel Farrage's grandmother, who was born Gladys Schrod (good Germanic name), is descended from German immigrants, Winston Churchill who's grandfather was an American of French descent, Helen Mirren who's parents were Russian and so on. Quite probably/possibly if hadn't been for immigrants you might not be here...

the issue at hand is the recent explosion in immigration and its effects on the current state of the UK. What happened before is not the issue. Its funny how those that are pro immigration grasp at straws.

Do you stop your project meetings for bow practice or give your employer a third of your crops? Thought not but they were common practice in the middle ages.

[vetran]

Which completely misses the point.

of course you expected more?

[original PM]

the issue at hand is the recent explosion in immigration and its effects on the current state of the UK. What happened before is not the issue. Its funny how those that are pro immigration grasp at straws.

Do you stop your project meetings for bow practice or give your employer a third of your crops? Thought not but they were common practice in the middle ages.

How much of a strain are these extra kids putting on our education system?

Are some of the kids born to hardworking non migrant british people suffering because half of the school budgets are going on learning Punjab?

I have no problem with immigration, I have problems with the fact we are expected to bend over backwards to accommodate some of them.

[vetran]

How much of a strain are these extra kids putting on our education system?

Are some of the kids born to hardworking non migrant british people suffering because half of the school budgets are going on learning Punjab?

I have no problem with immigration, I have problems with the fact we are expected to bend over backwards to accommodate some of them.

no one official will say that is part of the problem.

If we asked for this and ramped up for it I suspect most people would be OK with it. We didn't ask for it and people are seeing the effects in Education, health and housing so people are upset the official response until UKIP started winning seats was to call objectors racist.

[VectraMan]

How much of a strain are these extra kids putting on our education system?

Are some of the kids born to hardworking non migrant british people suffering because half of the school budgets are going on learning Punjab?

Why do they have to be hardworking?

Why wouldn't children of immigrants learn English? It's not the same as the problems caused by children arriving who have only ever learned a different language.

[VectraMan]

If we asked for this and ramped up for it I suspect most people would be OK with it. We didn't ask for it and people are seeing the effects in Education, health and housing so people are upset the official response until UKIP started winning seats was to call objectors racist.

To be fair, you are arguing that people should be classified according to who their ancestors are, not who they are.