Calais migrant crisis: UK police 'should help'

[darmstadt]

So maybe an updated version of this is what is needed:

‘British Jobs for British Workers’: The Lindsey Oil Refinery Dispute and the Future of Local Labour Clauses in an Integrated EU Market

2009 Lindsey Oil Refinery strikes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[tomtomagain]

Well that must be a UK thing as I know for a fact it doesn't happen here and there are more migrants in Germany than the UK. Maybe UK bosses are just stingy tight ****ers who are contributing to the problem by doing this

I think it's both a cultural thing ( "We only hire our own" ) and a result of Germany's highly defined apprenticeship programme.

They understand and value their young people and take a longer-term view.

[tomtomagain]

The last time something like that was done, everyone cried 'Protectionism'

Of course. And it is.

But some things are worth protecting.

[Flashman]

Migration Watch response to the UCL report published today.

Migration Watch UK: News: Comment on CReAM

The authors continue to call this in their press release a 'substantial contribution' from the accession countries. Not only is this a much smaller amount than people have been led to believe, but to suggest that this is somehow more than their UK-born peers is simply wrong.

They put this contribution "mainly down to their higher average labour market participation compared with natives and their lower receipt of welfare benefits". Actually, all this means is that they are more likely to be working-age and not receiving old-age pensions, and much is often made of the fact that these are young workers in the prime of life. But official statistics show that in the UK as a whole, working households without children actually contribute twice as much in tax as they receive in benefits. The assertion we hear so often that migrants in general and Eastern European workers in particular contribute far more than their UK-born counterparts is simply not comparing like with like and certainly not demonstrated in any way by this paper.

Basically trashes it.

“This report confirms that immigration as a whole has cost up to £150 billion in the last 17 years. As for recent European migrants, even on their own figures - which we dispute - their contribution to the exchequer amounts to less than £1 a week per head of our population.”

[sal]

No I am not telling you that. I think you would like to pretend that I am.

I am just giving you a real-life example of how I have personally seen the effects, rather than just typing out the "all immigration good" or "all immigration bad" lines that are usually trotted out.



But you on the other hand are trying the old "It is the lazy, unskilled, Brit who is at fault" line. Albeit with better grammar and finer words.

It's complete garbage.

Prior to 1997 does anyone remember the stories of crops left rotting in the fields unharvested? No one could get a drink in a pub because there was no one to serve! And don't talk to me about shops ... totally empty. Not an assistant to be seen!

Actually no one remembers those stories, because everything got done - with the current workforce.


I'll give you two more examples of the impact of immigration on the low skilled.

Example 1.
Took my other daughter to the local council run ice-rink, there is a little cafe there. All the staff ( who are lovely ) are Eastern European, it's a low-paid part-time job. Are you telling me that in a city ( although it's wealthy ) that has 15k students in it AND an unemployment rate of 5%, that NOBODY could be found to do those jobs?

Example 2.
Used to take the bus to work. There were 2 drivers, who we all knew, and would have a good chat with in the morning. Both Brits. One day, the contract was transferred to another organisation. Within 2 months, the Brit drivers were out of work. They were offered the new jobs ... at substantial reduced rates and terms. They ere replaced with 2 Eastern Europeans. A clear example of substitution of labour. Which is illegal.


Here's the rub. I am actually "For" the free migration of people, goods and services. It is beneficial to everyone.

However, it has to be controlled. You cannot just simply import 100's of thousands of low-level, low skilled workers into an economy ( especially one with a well defined benefits system ) within an incredibly short period of time AND not expect there to be problems.

And the thing that really gets my back up is the "Pro migration" camp just refuse to countenance that there is any societal or economic risk at all.

You don't think there were 100s thousands of low paid Eastern Europeans working in UK prior to 1997? It's that there were working under immigrant employment schemes and illegally. Yes there was a flood of Polish immigrants that had rather significant impact on the UK Economy, but you can't blame it all on the immigrants.

Example 1: 5% unemployment is considered very healthy, you can never achieve 0% as this is Utopia. Most economists suggest that 3-5% is the best case scenario. So i don't wee where the problem is?

Example 2: As you already pointed out - what happened is illegal, but again instead of blaming it on the Bus company for breaking the law and forcing people out of jobs, it's easier again to blame it on the immigrants

And i completely agree with you that the immigration had to be controlled much better, but it's not the immigrants fault that the UK Government is allowing them to come to UK.

[darmstadt]

Migration Watch response to the UCL report published today.

Migration Watch UK: News: Comment on CReAM




Basically trashes it.

Well thats a surprise, I wonder what their antithesis Migration Matters says about it? They do say this about Migration Watch:

Atul Hatwal, Director of the Migration Matters Trust, commenting on reports of a peerage for the chair of Migration Watch, Sir Andrew Green, said,
"Migration Watch is an organisation that has had its reports castigated as "sloppy," "wrong," and "based on guess-work" by academics at University College London.
The Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail recently had to print corrections to stories based on Migration Watch reports after a ruling by the Press Complaints Commission.
And when David Cameron rehashed Migration Watch's line on jobs and immigration, earlier this year, the UK Statistics Authority rebuked the PM, flatly contradicting his claims while the Press Complaints Commission said he had 'significantly misrepresented' the facts.
Presumably, Andrew Green's peerage is for services to fiction"

So who do you believe?

[VectraMan]

I really disagree. I have, as I said, a 17 year old daughter and so I meet lots of her friends and associates.

They are, for the most part, a hard-working bunch. Study hard. Play hard.

Though from what you've said, she gave up without actually try to get a job. I'm just going off your example; I've no idea if that's typical of 17 year olds or not. You can imagine the employer's frustration that only immigrants are applying for their jobs because young people believe that they only employ immigrants.

[tomtomagain]

it's easier again to blame it on the immigrants
And i completely agree with you that the immigration had to be controlled much better, but it's not the immigrants fault that the UK Government is allowing them to come to UK.

Blame on the immigrants? No, again you misrepresent me.

I am not blaming any individual who has taken on work at all. Nothing I have written is about "Blame". And nothing I have written has been vitriolic or negative about the other humans who have moved to work in my vicinity.

I am just pointing out some of the wider impacts on society rather than just swallowing the "All immigration is equal and all immigration is good" argument.

As I said in one post. I am "Pro" free movement of people, goods and services. But realistic at the same time.

[tomtomagain]

Though from what you've said, she gave up without actually try to get a job. I'm just going off your example; I've no idea if that's typical of 17 year olds or not. You can imagine the employer's frustration that only immigrants are applying for their jobs because young people believe that they only employ immigrants.

No. She didn't give up.

I just gave you one example, of one conversation, with one group of teenagers about one local business.

Don't extrapolate from a single data point.

[tomtomagain]

Most economists suggest that 3-5% is the best case scenario. So i don't wee where the problem is?

UK Youth unemployment rate for 16 - 24 year olds. 16%.