Calais migrant crisis: UK police 'should help'

[darmstadt]

It also removes the "entry" positions for UK workers. As an example my daughter ( 17 ) and her friends were talking about getting some part-time work. When I suggested they try at one of our local businesses the response was:

"No point, so-and-so has tried but they only hire under 16's or Eastern Europeans".

It's exactly this that I hear about when I speak to friends who have teenage children, how else are they meant to get experience of work if no one will take them on.

Well that must be a UK thing as I know for a fact it doesn't happen here and there are more migrants in Germany than the UK. Maybe UK bosses are just stingy tight ****ers who are contributing to the problem by doing this

[FatLazyContractor]

Of course from a business perspective it makes sense. Why hire 3 part-time 17 year old A level students when you can get 1 full-time 20 something? Which is why business needs regulating. Because business exists to fulfil the needs of society and not the other way around.

The last time something like that was done, everyone cried 'Protectionism'

[The Spartan]

Well that must be a UK thing as I know for a fact it doesn't happen here and there are more migrants in Germany than the UK. Maybe UK bosses are just stingy tight ****ers who are contributing to the problem by doing this

That and the view that they think immigrants will work harder I'm guessing, which isn't always the case.

[BrilloPad]

The last time something like that was done, everyone cried 'Protectionism'

Works well for the United States - I think we should give it a try.

[FatLazyContractor]

Works well for the United States - I think we should give it a try.

Only if someone fixes the Euro-piles sticking out of our arse ...

[sal]

Low-skilled migration impacts the lives on the most vulnerable in society. It depresses the wages of the semi-skilled, for example, truck drivers, painters and decorators and shop staff.

It also removes the "entry" positions for UK workers. As an example my daughter ( 17 ) and her friends were talking about getting some part-time work. When I suggested they try at one of our local businesses the response was:

"No point, so-and-so has tried but they only hire under 16's or Eastern Europeans".

They are not "racist" ( or angry ), as anyone with teenage children will know, they are an extremely tolerant generation, but for them it is just a "fact" that the jobs that we used to do as young adults are simply off limits to them.

Of course from a business perspective it makes sense. Why hire 3 part-time 17 year old A level students when you can get 1 full-time 20 something? Which is why business needs regulating. Because business exists to fulfil the needs of society and not the other way around.

It's exactly this that I hear about when I speak to friends who have teenage children, how else are they meant to get experience of work if no one will take them on.

This is the first time i'm hearing of a British local business preferring Eastern Europeans over Brits as the sole differentiating factor. Are you are telling me that the majority of the local businesses prefer under aged Brits and East Europeans over young Brits, without any other distinguishing factors as attitude toward work, skills, pay etc. this doesn't make any business sense.

On the other hand if you say they prefer under aged Brits and Eastern Europeans because they work for minimal wage, where young Brits are reluctant to do so, this makes perfect sense. There are quite few industries where the businesses can afford to illegally employ people under the minimum wage - construction and agriculture, where the illegal employees are tucked away from the authorities. Try doing the same in a high street store or a super market chain.

[tomtomagain]

You don't think she's using immigration as an excuse not to try to get some part time work?

Her? Yes. Her friends? No.

Actually seriously. No, she's not using it as an excuse.

For them it really is just a "fact" that shop work, bar work, packing jobs in local factories are generally taken by others from outside the community.

And back on to a previous point. Yes it's a concern, because doing crap-jobs-for-little-money is really important. Especially when you are that age because it starts to develop a sense of independence, responsibility and a benefit of work.

I can tell her all this, the school tell her ( and her friends ) it too. But getting a job is about being contributing to society, both giving and receiving from it in a really fundamental way.

And if collectively we don't provide opportunities to young people, we shouldn't be surprised if they start to kick off in the future. Certainly wouldn't want to be relying on them in your old-age!

Providing jobs for young unemployed is literally an investment in the future prosperity of society and business should be obliged to make that investment.

[sal]

Maybe i should state that i'm not dismissing the problem of youth unemployment or saying that the immigrants are not to blame for part of it. I'm only stating that this is only a part of the problem and in my opinion it's not the dominant factor. Youth being youth always looks for an excuse to wiggle out of responsibility and grow up.

Why would you live with 9 strangers in a 5 bedroom shared house while working a minimum wage job, when you can live with your parents until mid 30s, rent free, meals included, while claiming benefits and be much better off? If someone asks, do what the government is doing - blame it on the immigrants, the Government, house prices etc.

My grandfather used to say - If you want to do something, you look for means to do it. If you don't want to do it you look for excuses not to. I find it to be true in most situations, so in my life when i hear someone pointing at excuses why something failed, rather than at what was attempted but it still failed i know where the problem is.

[tomtomagain]

This is the first time i'm hearing of a British local business preferring Eastern Europeans over Brits as the sole differentiating factor. Are you are telling me that the majority of the local businesses prefer under aged Brits and East Europeans over young Brits,

No I am not telling you that. I think you would like to pretend that I am.

I am just giving you a real-life example of how I have personally seen the effects, rather than just typing out the "all immigration good" or "all immigration bad" lines that are usually trotted out.

without any other distinguishing factors as attitude toward work, skills, pay etc. this doesn't make any business sense.

But you on the other hand are trying the old "It is the lazy, unskilled, Brit who is at fault" line. Albeit with better grammar and finer words.

It's complete garbage.

Prior to 1997 does anyone remember the stories of crops left rotting in the fields unharvested? No one could get a drink in a pub because there was no one to serve! And don't talk to me about shops ... totally empty. Not an assistant to be seen!

Actually no one remembers those stories, because everything got done - with the current workforce.


I'll give you two more examples of the impact of immigration on the low skilled.

Example 1.
Took my other daughter to the local council run ice-rink, there is a little cafe there. All the staff ( who are lovely ) are Eastern European, it's a low-paid part-time job. Are you telling me that in a city ( although it's wealthy ) that has 15k students in it AND an unemployment rate of 5%, that NOBODY could be found to do those jobs?

Example 2.
Used to take the bus to work. There were 2 drivers, who we all knew, and would have a good chat with in the morning. Both Brits. One day, the contract was transferred to another organisation. Within 2 months, the Brit drivers were out of work. They were offered the new jobs ... at substantial reduced rates and terms. They ere replaced with 2 Eastern Europeans. A clear example of substitution of labour. Which is illegal.


Here's the rub. I am actually "For" the free migration of people, goods and services. It is beneficial to everyone.

However, it has to be controlled. You cannot just simply import 100's of thousands of low-level, low skilled workers into an economy ( especially one with a well defined benefits system ) within an incredibly short period of time AND not expect there to be problems.

And the thing that really gets my back up is the "Pro migration" camp just refuse to countenance that there is any societal or economic risk at all.

[tomtomagain]

Youth being youth always looks for an excuse to wiggle out of responsibility and grow up.

I really disagree. I have, as I said, a 17 year old daughter and so I meet lots of her friends and associates.

They are, for the most part, a hard-working bunch. Study hard. Play hard.

The idea that today's kids don't want to grow up is a daily-wail myth. It just doesn't resonate with the experiences of the vast majority of my friends or me.

You are again just resorting to stereotypes.