Calais migrant crisis: UK police 'should help'

[xoggoth]

over the English-speaking Caribbean, particularly Jamaica, who settled in Britain. These immigrants were invited to fill labour requirements in London’s hospitals, transportation venues and railway development. They are widely viewed as having been a major contributing factor to the rebuilding of the post-war urban London economy

Try looking at the facts, from reputable sources including government bodies, and this is one of the worst performing groups in the UK. Yes, all migrants grow the GDP, but if GDP was what mattered then Bangladesh would be three times as good to live in as Luxemburg. It is GDP per capita of the existing population that matters and you don't raise any average by adding more of less than average quality.

[xoggoth]

So if they're wrong but the person who delivers them in such a way that you agree with them, then they're right? Or is it that you only listen to one side of the argument because it goes against your beliefs to take into account the other side?

Maybe Dodgy is suggesting that you actually check the facts for yourself rather than take one person's or group's word for it. Not bad advice.

[Flashman]

By 2046, an estimated 494 people will be squeezed into every square kilometre of England compared with 411 now and only 374 when Tony Blair took power in 1997

Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country
England - 419
Holland - 408
Wales - 258
Germany - 226
Italy - 205
N. Ireland - 130
Poland - 123
Portugal - 116
France - 105
Romania - 89
Bulgaria - 66
Scotland - 40

By 2046, an astonishing 494 people will be living in each square kilometre in England. The equivalent figure for France will be just 115, for Germany 204 and the Netherlands 421.

[darmstadt]

Maybe Dodgy is suggesting that you actually check the facts for yourself rather than take one person's or group's word for it. Not bad advice.

I do, sadly it seems that a lot of people don't...

[darmstadt]

Try looking at the facts, from reputable sources including government bodies, and this is one of the worst performing groups in the UK. Yes, all migrants grow the GDP, but if GDP was what mattered then Bangladesh would be three times as good to live in as Luxemburg. It is GDP per capita of the existing population that matters and you don't raise any average by adding more of less than average quality.

Try reading what I posted Historically, Britain imported migrant workers and in those days they performed the tasks that the British couldn't and did them very well, primarily due to a lack of people (wars, etc.) but should no longer have to, which is pretty much what this thread is about. But going back to your quote above, what you have to ask yourself, is why are they one of the worst performing groups in the UK when their forefathers were in fact one of the best?

If you read through the thread and look at some of the posts, in particular regarding employers taking East Europeans rather than a local 17 year old then doesn't it come down to the fact that Britains would still rather use migrant workers, because they are cheaper, because they work harder (sometimes), because they are willing to the jobs that the indigenous folk don't want to do (and I'll say this is not restricted to the UK but more so than other countries I visit.) If you don't like these set of circumstances then instead of moaning on an IT contractors board then actively protest about it, don't go to these people's shops, don't buy the goods made by the manufacturers, make sure that people know that they are undercutting the local workforce and so on. But then again, whinging is Britain's national pastime

[darmstadt]

By 2046, an estimated 494 people will be squeezed into every square kilometre of England compared with 411 now and only 374 when Tony Blair took power in 1997

Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country
England - 419
Holland - 408
Wales - 258
Germany - 226
Italy - 205
N. Ireland - 130
Poland - 123
Portugal - 116
France - 105
Romania - 89
Bulgaria - 66
Scotland - 40

By 2046, an astonishing 494 people will be living in each square kilometre in England. The equivalent figure for France will be just 115, for Germany 204 and the Netherlands 421.

How much of that will be due to migrants and how much due to births? As DA said, the facts might be right but it's how you interpret them. So give us the facts...

[xoggoth]

How much of that will be due to migrants and how much due to births?

Why are you asking? Thought you said you checked facts yourself. Those are not separate causes, high birth rate is a lot to do with migrants.

According to the ONS, the biggest factor in the increase was a surging birth rate – with the highest number of babies born for 40 years. But the high birth rate was itself also partly fuelled by migration, with growing numbers of babies born to foreign-born parents.
There were 813,200 births in the UK in the 12 months to June 2012, the highest number since 1972.
Of those 25.9 per cent had a foreign born mother.

UK has fastest growing population in Europe - Telegraph


The foreign born are about 13% of the population incidentally.

[xoggoth]

Some major ethnic minorities, the products of previous migration over six decades, also have significantly higher birth rates.

http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialibr...mmigration.pdf

In the limited context of a debate about immigration, one cannot simply discount consequences of previous migrations. If we do, history will simply repeat itself and we will go on making the same mistakes.

Going back to the original topic, we need to stop the inflow of illegals from places like Somalia and Eritrea. They WILL be a burden on the rest of us for generations to come.

Reliance on social housing in this community is high; four in five live in social housing (80% compared to 38% on average in Lambeth ); over half in council accommodation (55%) and an additional quarter in accommodation managed by a housing association (25%).
Only half (52%) of respondents are employed or self-employed with one in six (16%) unemployed and available for work, and an equal proportion (16%) looking after the home. Unemployment in this community is higher in Southwark than in Lambeth, as only 36% of Southwark Eritreans are in employment compared to 58% in Lambeth.
One in five needs assistance with speaking and understanding the English language (21%) and one in ten (10%) need help with literacy in their community language. Around one in fourteen respondents (7%) either have special care or support needs themselves, or have an adult member of their family who does.

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/defa...ean-report.doc

[darmstadt]

Going back to the original topic, we need to stop the inflow of illegals from places like Somalia and Eritrea. They WILL be a burden on the rest of us for generations to come.

I have to agree in some ways with you there, I think with real cases of asylum seekers you can't turn them away but I suspect that they are the minority. The real question is, why the UK? I also think that refugees should also return to their home countries once stability has been restored, harsh, but fair.

[darmstadt]

Why are you asking? Thought you said you checked facts yourself. Those are not separate causes, high birth rate is a lot to do with migrants.

From ONS 2012 projections, just the very basics as I'm trying to watch the footie:

Projected population for the UK in 2046 is 75,9 million (the 2010 report said 77,1 million)
Projected births for the UK in 2046 is 855,075
Projected deaths for the UK in 2046 is 738,631
It seems that there will be a projected natural increase of around 57% (more births than deaths) and 43% due to projected net migration (these figures are rule of thumb due to age groupings, net migration tends to be young people). Net migration has been reduced also from the 2010 report and will apparently continue to fall having hit a peak soon...!!!

These figures show that it would be around 320 people per square kilometer