So...anybody ask for any of this?

[tractor]

...

We were? I though agencies forced us to go the Ltd/Umbrella route - if you go direct sole trader is still an option in many cases.

You have to go back a little further to the late 70's to understand the origins. My post only relates to the agency model, apologies if that was not clear

Agent sprang up all over the place and used to supply people who claimed to be self employed to clients. Said contractors routinely disappeared and phoenixed and paid no tax, vat or NI. Legislation was passed to prevent this, opening up agents to those liabilities for not carrying out due diligence. Agents then changed their model to only deal with Ltds.

NL got in power and the big consultancies (esp via people like Timms) persuaded them we were all tax dodgers abusing Limiteds by taking advantage of the 'veil of incorporation', IR35, AWR, Conduct Regs, abolition of the Employment Agencies Act and regulatory licencing and the springing up of umbrellas etc all ensued and got us to the pig's ear of a situation we have at the moment.

[tractor]

..

Isn't it suicidal for ipse?

We all become FLCs, IR35 no longer applies, and for most of us membership becomes pointless...

I think it's already clear that they haven't thought it through. But then, we are unlikely to see how the membership has grown and diversified since the rebrand. It may just be that the 20,000 will be far outweighed by any new blood rendering the point irrelevant.

[malvolio]

Isn't it suicidal for ipse?

We all become FLCs, IR35 no longer applies, and for most of us membership becomes pointless...

Provided you still think IPSE has nothing else to do than fight IR35 that is...

[darmstadt]

Agent sprang up all over the place and used to supply people who claimed to be self employed to clients. Said contractors routinely disappeared and phoenixed and paid no tax, vat or NI. Legislation was passed to prevent this, opening up agents to those liabilities for not carrying out due diligence. Agents then changed their model to only deal with Ltds.

That really, really resembles my start in contracting

[DiscoStu]

Provided you still think IPSE has nothing else to do than fight IR35 that is...

But if their IR35 product becomes irrelevant do you really think people will still pay £270 a year to fund them?

[Doggy Styles]

We were? I though agencies forced us to go the Ltd/Umbrella route - if you go direct sole trader is still an option in many cases.

Sole trader hasn't been an realistic option for most contractors for a long time.

Agents (and clients if you go direct) require that added 'protection' against you disappearing without paying your taxes.

There may be the odd dodgy agent who might let you.

[tractor]

...

That really, really resembles my start in contracting

The thing is that the history is probably irrelevant to most who started contracting from say '95 onwards and given that when this all started, there really was no such thing as 'knowledge based' contractors, it was more about coded welders, electricians and the like.

But it's helpful to know why it all started if you were not around then or don't understand the reasons why.

[eek]

Provided you still think IPSE has nothing else to do than fight IR35 that is...

I think you will be in for a surprise in that case....

[TykeMerc]

Provided you still think IPSE has nothing else to do than fight IR35 that is...

It started out as what amounted to a single issue pressure group, clearly through the executives self interest that's mutated into what we see today.

Isn't it suicidal for ipse?

We all become FLCs, IR35 no longer applies, and for most of us membership becomes pointless...

It was obvious when they re-branded that any pretense of being an anti IR35 pressure group had gone and it's now a wider political lobby group with a different agenda. They clearly feel they can operate without the IR35 targeted contractor people, but I wonder if they've truly considered the reality of that.

I'm fully expecting (dreading) that this "Optional" FLC will end up like the "Optional Opt Out" as effectively obligatory and they the whole can of worms is opened for a Government to take the mickey.

[TheFaQQer]

Isn't it suicidal for ipse?

We all become FLCs, IR35 no longer applies, and for most of us membership becomes pointless...

Many within IPSE view IR35 as an irrelevance that can be ignored now anyway.

The IR35 fight is over.