Random dull video about nothing very much

[SueEllen]

His (female) friend made him that shirt for his birthday. He cose to wear it on his special day. No sexism. It might not be appropriate clothing in other environments, but he's a scientist with a big beard, loads of tulip tattoos, and a gaudy shirt. Looking 'professional' is not an issue at his work, and so it's entirely appropriate.

The environment he was in was TV news (which is international) so the shirt wasn't appropriate. The people who didn't tell him so are at just at much at fault as he is.

[SueEllen]

it's exactly the point. Even by saying that, you are lumping all depictions as being morally equivalent. Maybe for you it is. It isn't for me. Where is the line? Who sets it? It seems that it is a minority who find it offensive. Why does their opinion carry more weight?

So women (and men) are only objectified in images if they are fully naked?

[mudskipper]

it's exactly the point. Even by saying that, you are lumping all depictions as being morally equivalent. Maybe for you it is. It isn't for me. Where is the line? Who sets it? It seems that it is a minority who find it offensive. Why does their opinion carry more weight?

I think "find it offensive" isn't the right term, it implies some sort of moral outrage - "How could this man wear (semi) naked women?"

There's middle ground between being offended and thinking it's fine.

If you had a colleague who was wearing that shirt, and you and he were meeting a female client, would you not feel just a little uncomfortable?

[mudskipper]

On a less controversial note, I like his tattoo.

[NotAllThere]

So women (and men) are only objectified in images if they are fully naked?

No, but there are degrees of objectification and offensiveness.

[SpontaneousOrder]

The issue with his shirt isn't that it's unprofessional because it's gaudy. It's that it has scantily clad women on it.

It is possible to to both think the shirt is inappropriate and think it's a shame that he's not been recognised for his achievements.

If Sam Fox had been wearing some sort of low cut top with boobs spilling out I would have been equally uncomfortable.

You don't work where some bloke wears a shirt with some women printed on it (and you women wearing far less on an average Saturday night out).
You did work where a picture of Sam Fox was pinned up.

So by your rebuke I can only assume that you feel that as a woman it's your place to tell the women with whom he actually does work that they should feel offended. Otherwise if no offence is taken then why would you need to speak badly of him?

Unless you personally found it offensive - in which case one might argue that you should mind your own business as you don't even work with him. Perhaps the women there like his colorful character, including his birthday shirt.

And if you would feel uncomfortable because of a picture of Sam Fox in a low cut top, then you have some significant emotional issues. People do from time to time, and that's unfortunate for them - but it's outright bullying to chastise other people for not accommodating one's own baggage.

My point is, again, that people would be far happier if they spent more time trying to achieve the things they want in life, and less time being professional victims. If Matt's shirt isn't conducive to a healthy working environment, then that's a matter for Matt, his colleagues, and his boss.
It isn't any business of people who voluntarily choose to watch a few minutes of a TV clip about his achievements.

You really should all feel ashamed. I know that's quite a heavyweight statement to make - but it's an honest measure of how I feel, and is echoed by the vast majority of people (including women) who sympathize with Matt, and who believe that such stances only serve to make victims of women - women who need to ask men to grant them what they want, rather than women to take what they want.

[NotAllThere]

I think "find it offensive" isn't the right term, it implies some sort of moral outrage - "How could this man wear (semi) naked women?"

There's middle ground between being offended and thinking it's fine.

If you had a colleague who was wearing that shirt, and you and he were meeting a female client, would you not feel just a little uncomfortable?

No. But I would tell him to go and get changed or I'm not going to the meeting with him. Equally if it was a male client, in fact. Same as if he turned up in flip flops to meet Prince Charles, as Taylor did!

My main point is that the backlash was unwarranted and mean.

The women in my house are not offended by his shirt, think the people who've vocally taken offense are a bit full off themselves, wouldn't be put off working at ESA, and wouldn't feel intimidated.

[SpontaneousOrder]

The environment he was in was TV news (which is international) so the shirt wasn't appropriate. The people who didn't tell him so are at just at much at fault as he is.

But you're in a very tiny (but vocal) minority. So how come it's inappropriate just because you say so?

[mudskipper]

Do you really not see that women who are in a working environment where there are pictures of that nature, may quite reasonably feel uncomfortable, or, if they see that an environment is like that, may feel it's not somewhere they want to work?

[SueEllen]

But you're in a very tiny (but vocal) minority. So how come it's inappropriate just because you say so?

Mudskipper has kindly answered your question.