Random dull video about nothing very much

[SueEllen]

Y

I don't see anything amiss with his shirt, and I don't think it would put women off going into science.

But you wouldn't.

You also probably don't realise that a page 3 image would intimidate some women particularly young ones in the workplace, which is why workplaces have laws and rules about what is an isn't appropriate.

BTW you can intimidate young men in the same manner.

[NotAllThere]

But you wouldn't.

Why, because I'm a man? Perhaps my opinion is based on the women I know who are in science? I wouldn't choose to wear it, but I'm not offended by it. Or are only women allowed to decide what constitutes offensive when it comes to portrayal of women? I wonder why my wife and daughters also don't see particularly anything amiss with the shirt?

You also probably don't realise that a page 3 image would intimidate some women particularly young ones in the workplace

Well, you're wrong on that, and there's a world of difference between "glamour" photography and Matt Taylor's shirt.

It seems that for some, page 3 is unacceptable, and Matt Taylor's shirt isn't. Hmm. Perhaps morality and definitions of offensiveness aren't absolute and aren't agreed on. Should we ban everything that anyone finds offensive?

There were pictures of topless women in the office when I started working. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now. I find them disrespectful to women and crass.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Agree, someone should have stopped it before it got that far.

I wouldn't want to work in an environment where the guys wore shirts with sexualised naked women on.

My first job from school, my boss had a lifesize Sam Fox on the back of his door. I used to hate going into his office.

There weren't any naked women on his shirt. Exaggerating in the face of opposing facts seems to be a common theme:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post2018280

[mudskipper]

There weren't any naked women on his shirt. Exaggerating in the face of opposing facts seems to be a common theme:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post2018280

What opposing facts? We've agreed it was a real shame that the shirt became the story.

I didn't examine the shirt in detail. Whether they were fully naked or not isn't really the point.

Edit: and if you want to play the pedantry game, I didn't say his shirt did have naked women on

[SpontaneousOrder]

SO might get the impression that I agree with his what I think is a rather misogynistic outlook.

I don't mean this in any possible kind of confrontationary or argumentative way - but why do you think I hold a misogynistic outlook?
If anything, as a rational egoist & individualist, I consider myself to view women more favorably than most feminists, who's position is inherently self-contradictory and does more to teach women to consider themselves victims than they do to encourage them to strive towards self-actualization. I view women exactly the same as men, albeit with statistically observable differences, generally speaking, when it comes to their preferences.

The problem I have with mainstream feminism is that equality is not on the agenda - and hence it is sexist, and ultimately damaging for both men & women (as the original video I posted attempts to point out).

[mudskipper]

So do you honestly think it's OK to wear a shirt like that to the office? Or do you accept that it could make women feel uncomfortable?

[SpontaneousOrder]

What opposing facts? We've agreed it was a real shame that the shirt became the story.

I didn't examine the shirt in detail. Whether they were fully naked or not isn't really the point.

Well that's the exact kind of hyperbole (saying that they were naked when you don't even know what you're talking about) that causes such a scene in the first place.
His (female) friend made him that shirt for his birthday. He chose to wear it on his special day. No sexism. It might not be appropriate clothing in other environments, but he's a scientist with a big beard, loads of tulip tattoos, and a gaudy shirt. Looking 'professional' is not an issue at his work, and so it's entirely appropriate.

If anyone external chooses to get involved, then it's entirely their choice to feel offended or not.

A quick look into the twittersphere will hint that women who took offence are a massive minority when compared to women who took offence at his castigation.


Sam Fox on your old bosses door is a big fat StrawMan - because she was naked.

[SueEllen]

Why, because I'm a man?

I was actually going to say because you are old.

Also noticed I used the word "intimidates" rather than "offends". There is a difference.

[NotAllThere]

Whether they were fully naked or not isn't really the point.

it's exactly the point. Even by saying that, you are lumping all depictions as being morally equivalent. Maybe for you it is. It isn't for me. Where is the line? Who sets it? It seems that it is a minority who find it offensive. Why does their opinion carry more weight?

[mudskipper]

Well that's the exact kind of hyperbole (saying that they were naked when you don't even know what you're talking about) that causes such a scene in the first place.
His (female) friend made him that shirt for his birthday. He chose to wear it on his special day. No sexism. It might not be appropriate clothing in other environments, but he's a scientist with a big beard, loads of tulip tattoos, and a gaudy shirt. Looking 'professional' is not an issue at his work, and so it's entirely appropriate.

If anyone external chooses to get involved, then it's entirely their choice to feel offended or not.

A quick look into the twittersphere will hint that women who took offence are a massive minority when compared to women who took offence at his castigation.


Sam Fox on your old bosses door is a big fat StrawMan - because she was naked.

The issue with his shirt isn't that it's unprofessional because it's gaudy. It's that it has scantily clad women on it.

It is possible to to both think the shirt is inappropriate and think it's a shame that he's not been recognised for his achievements.

If Sam Fox had been wearing some sort of low cut top with boobs spilling out I would have been equally uncomfortable.